It is actually verified e2ee. However, they do keep a ‘spare key’ for every single user and chat, you know, in case they need to help you, the good guys at Meta.
As far as I’m aware Moxie Marlinspike made the encryption before it was acquired by Facebook. One of the founders of WhatsApp now finances Marlinspike’d Signal messenger.
In theory Meta only sees who you communicate with, but not what you communicate.
(I wouldn’t be surprised if the bastards are trying to undo the encryption if they already haven’t.)
They have had some third party audits. It is not totally convincing to me as being trustworthy, but I see it as more of an acceptable necessary evil. Better than Discord, Snapchat, Facebook Messenger, probably even SMS. My wife’s whole family uses just WhatsApp, and so do some businesses even in her country. Believe me though, anyone I can get on Signal, Matrix, Session, etc, I do.
There have been third party audits, but the conclusions have been that you can’t know if it’s implemented correctly or at all. Nature of closed source. Because you can’t know where the keys are.
I get the doing business in their country. That is so difficult to overcome. I will not do it. Foot down on that one, and it does make it hard. My wife’s family does the same as you mentioned. I just tell them they are literally paying for fascism. They don’t care. Or you can pick from many of the ills of Meta products (energy use, AI, misinformation, or even simply making someone a billionaire by contributing nothing to society).
I’m working on it and avoid it when I can as I mentioned. The only reason I mentioned it is that it’s one of the last vestiges of apps I don’t fully trust. I treat it like SMS or email, I don’t send anything I don’t expect could be audited by the government with the right subpoenas.
But sometimes I’m in a weird position. If I need to order food in my wife’s country, I am not going to be able to contact the restaurant without WhatsApp. Then I, as a white American who doesn’t know them, am going to explain to the delivery guy the reasons why they shouldn’t support American fascism, in their native language that I am not 100% fluent in?
It isn’t American fascism of course. It’s everywhere.
But I get it, I find myself in the same boat traveling and visiting family. It really is pervasive. So in your scenario you can’t just go pick it up yourself?
I know there are other ones though: Everything in some places works like this where they want to do a call back - deliveries, doctors appointments, services. WhatsApp has almost, if not completely, replaced the phone, so even getting a local sim doesnt help.
I simply refuse to play along. I wont do it. Somehow we seem to work it out.
As far as you are told. There is no verification that is true.
But there is a nearly continuous stream of occurrences where Meta is caught lying.
It is actually verified e2ee. However, they do keep a ‘spare key’ for every single user and chat, you know, in case they need to help you, the good guys at Meta.
Can you show me where it’s verified? Did someone get to see the code?
As far as I’m aware Moxie Marlinspike made the encryption before it was acquired by Facebook. One of the founders of WhatsApp now finances Marlinspike’d Signal messenger.
In theory Meta only sees who you communicate with, but not what you communicate.
(I wouldn’t be surprised if the bastards are trying to undo the encryption if they already haven’t.)
not that it really matters, but it was a few years after the acquisition.
They have had some third party audits. It is not totally convincing to me as being trustworthy, but I see it as more of an acceptable necessary evil. Better than Discord, Snapchat, Facebook Messenger, probably even SMS. My wife’s whole family uses just WhatsApp, and so do some businesses even in her country. Believe me though, anyone I can get on Signal, Matrix, Session, etc, I do.
There have been third party audits, but the conclusions have been that you can’t know if it’s implemented correctly or at all. Nature of closed source. Because you can’t know where the keys are.
I get the doing business in their country. That is so difficult to overcome. I will not do it. Foot down on that one, and it does make it hard. My wife’s family does the same as you mentioned. I just tell them they are literally paying for fascism. They don’t care. Or you can pick from many of the ills of Meta products (energy use, AI, misinformation, or even simply making someone a billionaire by contributing nothing to society).
Makes it hard.
I’m working on it and avoid it when I can as I mentioned. The only reason I mentioned it is that it’s one of the last vestiges of apps I don’t fully trust. I treat it like SMS or email, I don’t send anything I don’t expect could be audited by the government with the right subpoenas.
But sometimes I’m in a weird position. If I need to order food in my wife’s country, I am not going to be able to contact the restaurant without WhatsApp. Then I, as a white American who doesn’t know them, am going to explain to the delivery guy the reasons why they shouldn’t support American fascism, in their native language that I am not 100% fluent in?
It isn’t American fascism of course. It’s everywhere.
But I get it, I find myself in the same boat traveling and visiting family. It really is pervasive. So in your scenario you can’t just go pick it up yourself?
I know there are other ones though: Everything in some places works like this where they want to do a call back - deliveries, doctors appointments, services. WhatsApp has almost, if not completely, replaced the phone, so even getting a local sim doesnt help.
I simply refuse to play along. I wont do it. Somehow we seem to work it out.
Lol, story of my life. But the best part is looking at people’s faces when you say ‘I don’t have whatsapp’ 🤣
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