along with the strong censoring that has occurred on reddit throughout the years, they have now removed r/all from the app and while using a desktop/laptop browser. instead of being able to stumble upon new subreddits you never knew existed, it wants to curate what you’re allowed to see
whose social norm?
this is the issue. you assume your social norms are shared by everyone. they aren’t. and then mods and such impose their social norms on everyone else rather than let the users decide what content they want to see.
i watched it happen countless times. community is pretty chill, but then a mod comes in and starts banning people who have been here for months/years over word choices or ‘tone’ or other petty nonsense because they want the community to only reflect their own personal norms and beliefs.
in real life you can go from town to town and the details of the norms and language change, that’s what’s normal. in some towns saying some words in heinous, in others, nobody cares.
it also doesn’t take into account the concept of context, which again, doesn’t exist for the sensitivity police who think all words mean the same things at all times and therefore must be banned from existence. let alone experiences, beliefs, or all the other things that actually make a community genuine diverse and interesting. the sensitivity police want to stamp out genuine diversity and create some weird linguistic police state nonsense where only certain things are permitted.
Does one really have to use the word “retard” to make a community diverse and interesting though?
It was a social norm to call black people the N word for generations… Social norms do not define good or bad behavior. They define what people find acceptable. Socially, the word you wish to be acceptable has made more and more people uncomfortable and has in fact become less and less socially acceptable to use casually. Many words you used to use are weird now. Growing up we used to say “frick” unironically. These days it would be a little strange to toss that in as a filler word. It’s the same concept except for the fact that the word has not become a slur, it’s just been outdated in its use.
Language evolves and words become acceptable and others become unacceptable. It’s the way it goes and is not a sign of sensitivity, instead a positive sign of progression of language. You are fighting against the nature of how language develops.
Language changes, it doesn’t ‘progress’. Lots of new racist and discriminatory terms now exist that didn’t years ago, many of which are totally acceptable because they are new and not ‘weird’.
But keep insisting that your language use is the only ‘correct’ one, I guess? It must make you feel big since you ‘know’ the ‘right’ language use. You should go around and ‘educate’ everyone you see on the street about it. See how well that goes over.
Using ageist terminology in quoting a dated joke is more than just “tone.” Everyone should feel welcome on Lemmy, including people with intellectual disability. That type of language marginalizes such people and has moved into being unacceptable. This isn’t stamping out diversity, it’s protecting it.
The logic here is pretty clear, it isn’t just someone randomly playing weird linguistic police. I totally get where you’re coming from, and I agree with you in principle, but I also feel like this particular case is just not the hill to die on.
Tell me more you live in a white college-educated liberal/leftie bubble, and think anyone who doesn’t share your viewpoints is ‘less than’ you.
It’s not about logic. It’s about you waking up the fact you don’t get to dictate how other people live their lives or how they speak, and your need to do that is nothing more than a power-tripping projection. And that you ‘welcoming to everyone’ necessary excludes people and is inherently contradictory based on arbitrary perceptions of language use, articulated by you, how views yourself as the dominant social group, and your instance that you ‘speak on behalf’ of those who you view as inherently less than you, that you must ‘protect’. I also notice these types of folks are self-appointed protectors. I doubt anyone asked you personally to go on the internet and start protecting them from certain words there.
That’s why this type of identity political nonsense pisses most people off, because it’s inherently contradictory on it’s own terms. And it’s typically welded by wannabe bullies who want to browbeat and power trip rather than genuinely create diverse communities and interesting communities. The inherent contradiction is why they use this ‘protect people’ justification all the time.
Further, I see words and things I disagree with all the time. But it’s not my place to ban or dictate to others how to speak or or force my views on them. I simple choose not to interact with them, but I am not so cowardly to think I can silence away their existence because it find it upsetting or find it offensive. Just like in real life, I don’t go up to people having a conversation that I find offensive and try to ‘educate’ them about how wrong they are, or tell someone off for wearing clothing I find offputting. Because I respect other people’s agency and freedom far more than respect my internal feelings of disgust and dislike.
Also why I don’t go into a Mosque and start trying to convert people there to Christianity… because I respect that they are different than me, and have practices and beliefs that are different than mine and oftentimes contradict mine. And they have such as might right to practice and speak as I do.
But if they start trying to covert me, yeah I’ll tell them to properly fuck off. Just like they should tell me to fuck off if I try to covert them. And that is what creates diversity and inclusion… respect for differences and the choice to participate.
Oh dude, I grew up on 4chan. I don’t personally give a single crap how you talk, I’m just saying why it is how it is. I have no desire to control your speech whatsoever.
Pretty sure most people understand the reasoning and move on with their lives.
Anyway, I’m gonna leave you with this and dip now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
i love this. every time your ‘camp’ is confronted you just ‘dip’ and drop some link to Popper like you’re dropping the mic and you’re some genius.
You don’t even understand Popper if you are using him here. Internet posts aren’t political speech. Popper’s argument is about political speech, not random people in in a coffee shop talking. But your camp can’t draw these distinctions between personal and political behaviors, because that’s too ‘difficult’ for you to understand. You also can’t understand context, or jokes, or the difference between your own feelings and the existence of the external world, half the time.
It’s also why you lose elections and the left is a joke politically. Because you can’t fight, you just run and hide, and wonder why the right beats the piss out of you in terms of social popularity and traction. Because they do fight. They don’t hide beside wikipedia links, and they try to reach people where they are rather than lecturing them from on high about how stupid and ignorant they are.
Would be nice to meet a leftist who actually stood for something other than being a pedantic hall monitor on the internet. But I notice when those leftists show up, all the other leftists just call them names because the idea of having a backbone and respecting other people’s differences, including linguistic differences, is SCARY to them. Lemmy leftists are always such total cowards.
I hope your day gets better.
Right, I’m just having a bad day if I dare to disagree with you and argue the point.
It can’t possibly be that you’re ignorant, or wrong, or presumptuous.
Because hey, you read wikipedia you know what is best for society, and haven’t ever considered the implications of your own beliefs when they are followed through… almost just like the very same MAGA people you love to hate.
You’re literally having an emotional crash out and there’s no talking with you. You’re projecting your preconceived notions onto me while ignoring anything I say. So I repeat, I hope your day gets better.
No. I’m rationally arguing with you that your viewpoint is intolerance of others. You don’t want a free and tolerance and inclusive society, you want one where you get to call the shots and you get to silence and bury anyone you find ‘offensive’…
That’s the irony you can’t see. That I’m arguing for a tolerance and free society, and you are not. You are not arguing, you are slinging shit because you have no argument, because you are the person Popper is talking about. You are the irrational intolerance pro-suppression pro-violence person. Because you have no argument, only your own personal feelings and you lack any empathy to understand that other people’s personal feelings differ and have the same value as yours! Oh no! No that can’t be, only my feelings matter!
Because you can’t handle the fact others are different than you, you see that difference as necessarily harmful. Which is precisely what intolerance people on the right think that you are so terrified of. You are a MAGA, you just don’t know it because you’re so irrationally attached to your own feelings of moral superiority over ‘ableism’, from which you feel you should have the power to silence others for using words you feel is hateful and harmful, irregardless of whether or not they actually are.
And how are you going to say, meet a intellectually person who thinks the r-word is funny and hilarious when their favorite comic uses it? Are you going to tell them what an ignorant intolerance horrible fool they are? I hope not. I think if you were a decent person you’d leave them alone and let them enjoy it, and not dictate to them how stupid and problematic their enjoyment is because it’s ‘intolerant’ or whatever. Weird how you would extend them that grace, but can’t see to extend it to anyone else…
Are you not doing this exact thing right now?
So, where the hell do you want to draw the lines, and why does that location not make you a product of exactly what you’re accusing everyone else of?
I only draw lines for myself. I am not arrogant to claim to speak for anyone else.
I also draw the lines based on context of the existing community, god forbid!
If you don’t like certain words, cool, don’t interact go go to places that allow them. But the issue is your need to impose your personal beliefs on others who don’t share them, and don’t want to share them.
Should I go into a black barber shop and start informing the community there how racist/ableist/sexist they all are based on their language use? Or would that just make me the racist?
From where I stand, that would make me the racist POS if I did that. Trying to impose my bullshit on other people who never asked for it, who don’t want it, and think it’s total bullshit. Maybe I should go into the barber shop and ‘educate’ all those ‘ignorant’ black men about bell hooks!!! Clearly that will ‘fix’ their ignorance!!
Yet here you are telling people where they’re not allowed to draw lines for others.
That’s you, speaking for everyone else.
nobody asked for what you’re saying now.
You’re literally trying to define the social norm while telling eveyone else they should not get to pick the social norm.
Advocating for eveyrone to refuse to censor anything is same trap as advocating for people to censor things.
And there will always be lines. Gonna block outright harassment? Gonna block kiddie pics, Gonna block a bunch of people organizing how to cut the power to a town, kill people, get away with murder?
every response you made here was ‘no but u’
This is why decent folk don’t respect your viewpoint. Because you can’t defend it without calling peoples names and resorting to toddler level replies, and misconstruing everything someone else says deliberately.
I am not defining anything for anyone else. I am speaking for myself. Your entire blindness to this fact is so telling. You literally can’t distinguish between a personal view and a social view, because for you there is no distinction. Hence you feel you personal feelings are the business of society, and society has to be built to protect your personal feelings.
I notice a lot of people like you also can’t seem to distinguish between the external world and your own internal thoughts, and seem to think that isn’t a personal problem of your own, but a problem the ‘society’ is suppose to solve for you. Other people’s realities dont’ exist for you, you want to erase them and create a friction-less world that only ever reflects your own image, and nobody who upsets you is allowed to exist in it.
Are we reading the same thing? Are you ok? Have you hit your head?
Every single time. Women cannot argue without mean girls tactics
That’s certainly not a quote from anything I’ve typed lol
Dying on a hill is hard. I’m not even going to respond to their last batch. They don’t see it, us trying to make them see it isn’t going to provide interesting or useful discourse or make them feel any better about it :)