• PugJesus@piefed.social
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    2 hours ago

    The issue is that ton of Iranians would still get killed if the USA was not directly involved

    Okay, do you think that less Iranians would be killed if the USA was not involved? Would that be something one might consider a significant difference, or are dead Iranians like a boolean - it only matters if there are dead Iranians or there are not; the actual number of lives fucking murdered doesn’t matter?

    but majority of Americans are simply selfish and may only act when ton of Americans get killed in a war

    And act in what way? In what positive way for Iran do you see Americans acting in response to Americans being killed in the war? Direct American involvement in the war stopping? Direct American involvement that would almost certainly not have happened under the other administration?

    The preparations for the twelve day war started during Biden and ended during Trump .

    1. And the October 2024 strikes, and all the ones before that?

    2. That also doesn’t explain why Iran didn’t close the strait then if your point is valid.

    The reason why this time they went to full scale war is because Israel felt powerful after genociding Gaza with no real consequences from the west and even China

    You mean like they felt in 2024? Or in 2025?

    and thought they destroyed Hezbollah so they thought they could destroy Iran completely to finally start the greater israel project

    … that doesn’t explain why Iran would close the strait in response to attacks by Israel alone when it did not do so previously, which is what was asked.

    What power projection do you think Israel has in this war? Without the US directly involved, what level of ‘full scale war’ do you think Israel would be able to wage in 2026, even with a theoretically unlimited amount of monetary and materiel aid from the USA?

    • mrdown@lemmy.world
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      2 hours ago

      Okay, do you think that less Iranians would be killed if the USA was not involved?

      No. Israel would still receive billions from the USA to did as much damage

      And act in what way? In what positive way for Iran do you see Americans acting in response to Americans being killed in the war? Direct American involvement in the war stopping? Direct American involvement that would almost certainly not have happened under the other administration?

      Stop voting for pro israel candidates from all the political spectrum. Civil disobedience till your war criminals go to jail

      And the October 2024 strikes, and all the ones before that?

      The October 2024 strikes was during Biden proving this post point. Dems and republicans keep supporting Israeli settler colonialism and genocides

      That also doesn’t explain why Iran didn’t close the strait then if your point is valid.

      The other strikes was special military operations. This time Israel goal is the total collapse of Iran as a state so Iran have no choice but closing the straight of Hormuz it is an existential war this time

      • PugJesus@piefed.social
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        2 hours ago

        No. Israel would still receive billions from the USA to did as much damage

        So you think… that Israel has 100% of the capacity to inflict damage on Iran with the direct support of the US military as it does without the direct support of the US military?

        Stop voting for pro israel candidates from all the political spectrum. Civil disobedience till your war criminals go to jail

        And you think either of those results are likely from this war?

        The October 2024 strikes was during Biden proving this post point. Dems and republicans keep supporting Israeli settler colonialism and genocides

        Okay, the point was never “Other administrations weren’t Zionist!”, the point was fucking “Iran did not close the strait previously in response to Israeli attacks without direct US military assets contributed; why would they have done so this time if the US wasn’t indulging in a brutal bombing campaign of Iran?”

        The other strikes was special military operations. This time Israel goal is the total collapse of Iran as a state so Iran have no choice but closing the straight of Hormuz it is an existential war this time

        I wonder if Israel’s capacity to even consider such a war is predicated on the willingness of the shitwit currently in the American presidency to contribute American assets directly to the war instead of the usual ‘aid and intelligence’ shite we normally pass on to Israel.

        Hm.

        I guess we’ll never know despite said aid and intelligence being unconditional since the 1980s, and essentially unlimited since the early 2000s.

        • mrdown@lemmy.world
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          2 hours ago

          So you think… that Israel has 100% of the capacity to inflict damage on Iran with the direct support of the US military as it does without the direct support of the US military?

          Israel has 100% of the capacity to inflict severe damage on Iran with direct to indirect US military support .

          And you think either of those results are likely from this war? Probably not because Americans are selfish they let their war criminals getting away from Vietnam to Afghanistan to Iraq to Libya to Syria .

          Iran did not close the strait previously in response to Israeli attacks

          I already told you this time Israel want to completely destroy Iran because the whole world let Israel get away with the genocide in Gaza. , they thought Hezbollah is done to accomplish the greater Israel they need to genocide Iran. That’s why the straight is closed this time. The preparation started during Biden and Biden let it happen . The only thing that may have stopped Israel was not giving them a single dime .

          • PugJesus@piefed.social
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            2 hours ago

            Israel has 100% of the capacity to inflict severe damage on Iran with direct to indirect US military support .

            I wonder what all those American military assets are doing, then. Must be sitting around with their thumbs up their ass.

            Probably not because Americans are selfish they let their war criminals getting away from Vietnam to Afghanistan to Iraq to Libya to Syria .

            Okay, so then direct American involvement in the war doesn’t help fucking anyone, it only makes things worse. Thank you for agreeing, I guess?

            I already told you this time Israel want to completely destroy Iran because the whole world let Israel get away with the genocide in Gaza.

            They’ve been getting away with genocide against Palestine for 70 years.

            Jesus Christ.

            • mrdown@lemmy.world
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              1 hour ago

              Okay, so then direct American involvement in the war doesn’t help fucking anyone, it only makes things worse. Thank you for agreeing, I guess?

              Both direct and indirect American involvement in the war is helping Israel and hurting Iran as a state significantly

              They’ve been getting away with genocide against Palestine for 70 years.

              Again proving this post point . Both republicans and democrats are unconditionally backing a genocidal state for over 70 goddamn year . The whole west , China and russia/ussr are also complicit in a lesser extends. After the nekba not a single country should have recognized Israel and creating economical tie with it

              • PugJesus@piefed.social
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                1 hour ago

                Both direct and indirect American involvement in the war is helping Israel and hurting Iran as a state significantly

                And more American involvement helps Israel more, and hurts Iran more, correct?

                Again proving this post point . Both republicans and democrats are unconditionally backing a genocidal state for over 70 goddamn year . The whole west , China and russia/ussr are also complicit in a lesser extends. After the nekba not a single country should have recognized Israel and creating economical tie with it

                Okay? None of that has anything to do with false equivalences between administrations, despite your continued desperate denial that American troops mean anything more than American money.