Nah. Everyone’s spiraling into our own little bubbles, including us on Lemmy (albeit more slowly without algos to gas it). And no one is interested in stopping it.
But one observation I’ve had is that most conservatives (with some exceptions, like libertarian-leaners or small business types) seem to consolidate around authority figures. Kinda like fundamentalist churches/megachurches. Leftists, on the other hand, generally consolidate around ideologies, which ultimately yields far less unity.
Nah. Everyone’s spiraling into our own little bubbles, including us on Lemmy (albeit more slowly without algos to gas it). And no one is interested in stopping it.
I mean, this is “Advice” meme, not a “This is how things are currently going” meme.
But one observation I’ve had is that most conservatives (with some exceptions, like libertarian-leaners or small business types) seem to consolidate around authority figures. Kinda like fundamentalist churches/megachurches. Leftists, on the other hand, generally consolidate around ideologies, which ultimately yields far less unity.
The issue is not so much the ideology as the tribalism. Tribalism around a central authority figure tends to be stable in composition, while tribalism around an ideology (including non-leftist ideologies like religions) tends to be unstable in composition, because one is based on solidarity with another member of the tribe (who is thus, by definition, part of the tribe), while the latter requires consideration of what positions makes one part of the tribe, which invariably ends up with different answers from different people.
In both cases, the tribalism (or rather, the exclusions caused by the tribalism) is the core problem, not the exact form it takes.
So in other words:
How to talk with other leftist:
Don’t you dare disagree with anything we say or you’re the enemy and O’Neill fucking murder you!
Okay then, that all sounds very reasonable!
I was with this till I saw it coming from someone who I constantly see screaming down at anyone that refused to support Harris and/or voted third party. How about practicing what ya preach there buddy?
So you agree with the “you’re with me or you’re against me” and “anyone who disagrees with me even a little bit is the enemy and deserves a bullet!” attitudes in this comic?
You’re so close, man!
I’m fine with people having their own way of achieving a better world. My problem comes when someone starts fighting with somebody because they didn’t do it the “right” way. If you support the DNC then cool. If you view them as no different than the Conservatives, awesome. If you think people who view one of these two is a problem that needs to change and you’re gonna do that by attacking them, then fuck you.
While I’m certainly imperfect in this regard, regarding a low-cost low-risk act of harm reduction against fascism with potentially very serious effects as mandatory if it’s not a major burden on your life is not an attack on your ideology, no more than regarding calling the ambulance for a dying man as mandatory is an attack on you, regardless of whether you think the man should be dying in the first place or not.
That’s your belief and that’s fine, but attacking people who believe the actual harm reduction is not supporting either major party since they’re seen as the same level of harmful and votes for third party candidates along with progressive third party options at local elections (something I just did yesterday since my town just had our local elections and I only voted for those that never showcased support for either party even on their personal social media accounts) is just being the guy on the right.
That’s your belief and that’s fine, but attacking people who believe the actual harm reduction is not supporting either major party since they’re seen as the same level of harmful and votes for third party candidates along with progressive third party options at local elections (something I just did yesterday since my town just had our local elections and I only voted for those that never showcased support for either party even on their personal social media accounts) is just being the guy on the right.
That presumes that the requirement to not be the guy on the right is to endorse all actions, even ones which directly undermine one’s own cause or directly assist fascism, as equally valid. That’s not what the meme is saying. This isn’t about asspatting people for enabling Nazis. I said that already.
People’s views of what enables fascists are different. If you view the DNC as another fascist party, then voting for them is a fascist choice. A lesser fascist is still a fascist after all, whether you view them as lesser or equal is up to you.
People’s views of what enables fascists are different. If you view the DNC as another fascist party, then voting for them is a fascist choice. A lesser fascist is still a fascist after all, whether you view them as lesser or equal is up to you.
So you don’t actually understand what ‘harm reduction’ means despite using the term. Got it.
Harm reduction to me is no harm being caused (unless it’s to a member of the bourgeoisie class cause it’s always open season on them) aka reducing harm to 0. Some view it as stopping 1% of harm which works for them. Both want the same end goal, but disagree on how to go about it and get passionately argumentative and sometimes hostile about it.
Harm reduction to me is no harm being caused
So you don’t actually understand what ‘harm reduction’ means despite using the term. Got it.
In any case, this is an argument over the validity a method, which is not what the meme is about. The meme isn’t saying “Don’t argue with other leftists when your positions clash!”, it’s saying "Remember that there is broad room for cooperation and allyship, and that a different kind of leftist is not automatically your enemy just because they have different end-goals."
But what if their vision of society isn’t less fucked up than the current one?
Then you gotta use your own judgement as to whether they’re worth working with to overthrow the current evil or not.
As someone who is fiercely argumentative myself (and stubborn, foul-mouthed, and irritable to boot), I totally get getting into scraps with fellow leftists. I am by no means telling you to asspat anyone! People only change when regularly and vigorously challenged, and often not even then - but certainly an unchallenged view is an unexamined one for most.
But ultimately, please try to remember that we are all capable of being comrades here - or at least most of us. We have broad agreement in what needs to go - we can support each other, both ideologically and practically, in the many ways to go about it, even if they may not be the way we ourselves would prefer.
You don’t have to fluff everyone no matter how far-fetched their idea, in a “We couldn’t win this fight without you trying to project your consciousness into the Astral Realm to awaken the Primordial Leftist Gestalt! 😭🙏” way, but when someone says to you “I’m an anarchist, I organize to alleviate suffering at the grassroots level”, the correct response is “Right on, comrade”, even if you think state institutions are the optimal solution. Even in simply engaging in the fight, we raise its visibility; in raising visibility, we weaken the powers that be and widen the embrace for our comrades to join us.
None of us will win this fight alone. The leviathan will drag its carcass onwards as long as we refuse solidarity with each other. Maybe not everyone is an ally - but don’t operate from the presupposition that disagreement is automatic cause for division.
There are many futures yet possible which are better than our present (though that may be damnation by faint praise), and the chance of any one of us having our ideology implemented 100% in any of them is very fucking slim. If you operate with the mindset of “Only my way is valid,” not only do you offload the burden of achieving success onto people who are willing to engage in solidarity with their comrades, but when the future comes, no matter how hard you fought for it… you will be disappointed.
The world doesn’t end with ourselves. We exist, and will continue to exist, with many other ways of thinking and doing things. The important thing is to prioritize disagreements, both in action and in sentiment. As long as a comrade is working towards the goal of a better world in SOME way that is not utterly futile, like begging for scraps at a fascist table, they are infinitely more your comrade than anyone who is… well, not working towards that cause.
Agreed. By the time our different ideologies become relevant, we’ve already made incredible progress. Let’s concentrate on getting to that point first.
The other ⅓ of the “leftists” in threadiverse*:
jesus christ I thought that surely had to be satire but of course it’s curtis fucking yarvin
