There are so many places that without tourism, there isn’t a reason to be there. I drive the Western US pretty thoroughly and the difference between small towns where tourists go, and those that have nothing, is stark. They love to complain about it, and hate on tourists, but damn do they want that money. You go am hour down the road and get to the next town and it’s dead, no grocery stores, no real business, most the main streets are boarded up from failed attempts at building something. People are fucking stupid, you have have some reason your town exists, or you end up with those towns in Wyoming I drive through that have 20 population, and won’t last another generation.
What a strange take. The people that run businesses are almost never the entirety of the town. If they are, you’re likely in a theme park or a carnival. And of course the businesses want your money.
Have you interacted with someone that doesn’t run a business there?
Yes, but you do realize that the people that live there work at those businesses. If tourism doesn’t exist in those areas, those jobs that they rely on wouldn’t exist. You don’t have to own a business to profit from it. In many of those areas, there isn’t any other real industry.
Yes, but you do realize that the people that live there work at those businesses. If tourism doesn’t exist in those areas, those jobs that they rely on wouldn’t exist.
Trickle down economics on Lemmy, Christ.
I suppose I should expand on that, my understanding of trickle down systems are those that benefit the rich at the expense of their poor. My argument for why it benefits the rich: your comment on the benefits of tourism. My arguments why those benefits come at the expense of the poor: their comment listing all the expenses those benefits come at.
You know any of those people can start a business a well. Right. Right? It’s not about trickle down. It’s about people choosing A job. Shit I got tired of working for people years ago and started my own company. At one point I couldn’t afford a screw to finish a job. I had to talk a Lowe’s employee into letting me have one. Last year I made a pretty great wage. I’m not rich, but I’m not suffering any more. Maybe. Just maybe, get off Lemmy, and everything else and stop feeling sorry for yourself. No one is going to hand you shit. Tourist town, big city. Small town, whatever.
That’s my point. I started mine with about 100$. If you can’t get that. Go sell Kool aid. Shit it you can’t afford that ask anyone for a dollar, go buy some, and start making something. People want to be handed everything.
I never said millionaire. Not even close. I make enough to pay my rent, bills, and go on a couple vacations to see my grandchild. Don’t know why making a living suddenly equates into millions.
That’s a nice anecdote, but it’s not the argument for tourist towns you think it is. You’re merely arguing that they should aspire to join the ranks of the advantaged, at the expense of the poor. Not that the rich aren’t advantaged at the expense of the poor.
“Just start a business lol” is also an argument used to defend trickle down economics. But you know as well as I, it’s no panacea.
Just maybe, get off Lemmy, and everything else and stop feeling sorry for yourself. No one is going to hand you shit.
How arrogantly presumptive of you. If I told you I’m comfortable, and have no want or need for people to “hand me shit”, would you respect my opinion more? Would you like to try again without the failed economic policy, anecdotal non-sequitors, or the classist ad-hominems?
Dude let me tell you this. I was poor like dirt poor for years. I’ve been homeless with my kids more than once. I have suffered I have seen it all I have been to the food banks I have relied on churches and people to pay my rent just so I could have a place to live. Don’t fucking talk to me about being poor and being privileged and suffering. Shit when I started my business I literally quit my job took my paycheck that I had for 2 weeks and that’s what I had for my business and pay my rent and to pay my bills I didn’t even own a car when I started my business. So don’t fucking tell me what a poor person can or cannot do if that person is fucking motivated and can actually get off their fucking ass still fucking do it. I come from a small goddamn town I know what it’s like to live in a small town. Tourist towns are no different than anywhere else they just have more opportunity to have people show up. Shit if I lived in a tourist town I’d be out there selling Kool-Aid on the side of the road I’d be making t-shirts and printing them. Depending on where I was at I’d be doing something local and making people hand over money hand over fist. You don’t got to be privileged you don’t got to do anything you just got to understand that you’re hungry and that you got a fucking make money. People are so fucking privileged they don’t know how to do shit anymore. Fuck all of you people that think they got to be handed everything fuck all you people that think that you got to be fucking rich to have anything in your fucking life. you guys are all just fucking assholes when it comes down to it. And fuck you people that live in tourist towns that think you would be better off without those fucking tourists and their deep pockets coming through. I’ve seen all of the towns in Utah Wyoming Nevada Colorado Idaho Montana Arizona New Mexico that don’t have tourism industries those are the poorest fucking towns in the world and there ain’t shit to do in any of them and there ain’t fucking work to find anywhere. I literally drive through towns where there’s two families and that’s the population of the fucking town. Because nobody lives there anymore because every fucking person knows they have to move because you have to feed your family you have to have a place to live you don’t just get handed something shit even if you handed a house how the fuck are you going to pay for it when there’s nobody else to bring in any sort of money. Fucking people don’t know shit and it’s fucking hilarious thinking that they could go out and do any of that fucking shit without that money coming into their fucking pockets. It’s not about being rich it’s not about the people that own the businesses God damn all the people work in the cashiers all the fucking people working at the fast food places all the people waiting tables at all those places they’re making fucking money they got money coming in and they get paid better than most of the people in the big cities get fucking paid. Yeah they’re having issues paying the rent but guess what everybody in the cities are having issues paying the rent also people are having to live with other people because rent has gone so fucking high and that’s because greedy fucking people at the top are charging more and more and more and they don’t fucking care anymore. But that doesn’t mean that we can’t fight back that doesn’t mean that we can’t grab a little bit of that money for ourselves and try to fucking make as much money as possible. So fuck you guys for thinking that you can’t fucking do it fuck you guys for thinking it’s trickle down economy shit it ain’t trickle down economy it’s grab whatever the fuck you can economy if that starts as trickle down and then you end up making money out of it that’s what it’s all fucking about.
TL;Dr: you: lots of people gave me lots of handouts, I’m good and should be listened to. Also you: other people just want handouts, they’re bad and shouldn’t be listened to. Your position is very silly.
Dude let me tell you this. I was poor like dirt poor for years. I’ve been homeless with my kids more than once. I have suffered I have seen it all I have been to the food banks I have relied on churches and people to pay my rent just so I could have a place to live.
TL;Dr? Your wall of text started with this anecdotal non-sequitor. I can’t imagine it gets better from there, and you’ve lost the benefit of the doubt.
You aren’t describing a particularly awesome system btw: “dude, things are so good, I’ve been homeless at least twice, I couldn’t afford food at one point and I needed people to hand me shit (like food and rent)… Let me tell you how much other people want them to be handed shit.” That wonderful bit of hypocrisy is just the first few sentences. Here’s my advice: introspect.
Anyway, did you, at any point, argue I was wrong about tourist towns? I suspect not, you haven’t yet.
I suppose I should expand on that, my understanding of trickle down systems are those that benefit the rich at the expense of their poor. My argument for why it benefits the rich: your comment on the benefits of tourism. My arguments why those benefits come at the expense of the poor: their comment listing all the expenses those benefits come at [and now you, telling me you were homeless, and needed people to hand you shit to survive].
I have asked, and you have failed already. But could you do it without the failed economic policy, the anecdotal non-sequitors, or the classist ad-hominems this time? I’m adding being a ladder puller to the list. Who knows what other nonsense your comment was full of. Generally it’s a request to drop the nonsense please.
Just an FYI, “Pull yourself up by bootstraps” is a common defence of trickle down economics. That’s why I mocked your “just start a business lol” argument. It’s silly and you should feel silly.
You still need demand. You can’t just start a company that does whatever you wanna work in whereever you want. Though there are things you can do pretty much everywhere as long you have electricity and internet
In many of those areas, there isn’t any other real industry.
And this is the crux of the issue people have with tourist towns as well. Tourism as an industry drives up CoL through inflated property values and increased prices for basic essentials but is a low wage industry.
An economy needs money to flow, but you need more than a low wage industry for a healthy area. Otherwise, you’ve basically just reinvented serfdom with a different product.
Reminds me of when I ran into some international students and they asked me “what is in Indiana? Who would ever live there?” Sometimes people just are born or end up places and social ties, debt, or whatever keeps them there. Moving is easy for some, remarkably hard for others.
Sure, but also people just like it. I live in Illinois about 2.5 hours out of Chicago and I love it. We have all 4 seasons, the population is roughly 400k, we have basically everything a major city has, way less traffic, cost of living is minimal (comparatively), I can travel 10 miles out and it’s farmland where we can run ATVs and dirt bikes, hunting (not my thing personally), you can easily go into Chicago if there’s a huge concert or event (we get a lot locally too).
I get that it isn’t everyone’s thing with snowing a few times a year, or you’re not an hour from a beach. But that would eventually get old after a while I’m sure.
Just saying there are plenty of reasons to pick “why would you live there” places.
Everyone needs a job to survive in this world. Workout actually, yes. Because it’s not a problem. It’s people complaining about their way of life. Most would not be able to live in those areas without something like that.
and most still can’t live there anyway, they just have a job while not being able to afford living there
almost like you have zero actual experience living in a tourist town and ignored the point in the first post in favor of vomiting your opinion all over the place
anyway until you either admit you have no idea what you are talking about personally other than being a tourist or name an actual city you lived in with real direct experiences I’m done
Yes I have been a tourist in many many cities and I’ve seen the effect of industries. I’ve also traveled to many of the cities off the beaten path that have no tourism and have no other industries and I have witnessed how they’ve died. I was born and raised in a very small town in rural Nevada that is reliant solely upon the mining industry. I watched the ups and downs of that and I watched them trying over the last 20 years since I’ve left there try to become a tourist town and trying to encourage other industries because they realize that they have to do something and there’s no other industries out there that want to be there want to move there want to stay there and people don’t want to live there. Because there is nothing there to keep them.
Edit: also very few can afford to live in that town either the cost of living is skewed unless you are working at the mine, 12 hours a day, underground. Tourism isn’t the only thing that destroys towns
Man, I had to drive from Cody to Casper back in 2013 or so… Shoshoni Wyoming looks like the zombie apocalypse already came and went. Like holy shit, what did those folks do to deserve to be stuck living there?
There are so many places that without tourism, there isn’t a reason to be there. I drive the Western US pretty thoroughly and the difference between small towns where tourists go, and those that have nothing, is stark. They love to complain about it, and hate on tourists, but damn do they want that money. You go am hour down the road and get to the next town and it’s dead, no grocery stores, no real business, most the main streets are boarded up from failed attempts at building something. People are fucking stupid, you have have some reason your town exists, or you end up with those towns in Wyoming I drive through that have 20 population, and won’t last another generation.
What a strange take. The people that run businesses are almost never the entirety of the town. If they are, you’re likely in a theme park or a carnival. And of course the businesses want your money.
Have you interacted with someone that doesn’t run a business there?
Yes, but you do realize that the people that live there work at those businesses. If tourism doesn’t exist in those areas, those jobs that they rely on wouldn’t exist. You don’t have to own a business to profit from it. In many of those areas, there isn’t any other real industry.
Trickle down economics on Lemmy, Christ.
I suppose I should expand on that, my understanding of trickle down systems are those that benefit the rich at the expense of their poor. My argument for why it benefits the rich: your comment on the benefits of tourism. My arguments why those benefits come at the expense of the poor: their comment listing all the expenses those benefits come at.
You know any of those people can start a business a well. Right. Right? It’s not about trickle down. It’s about people choosing A job. Shit I got tired of working for people years ago and started my own company. At one point I couldn’t afford a screw to finish a job. I had to talk a Lowe’s employee into letting me have one. Last year I made a pretty great wage. I’m not rich, but I’m not suffering any more. Maybe. Just maybe, get off Lemmy, and everything else and stop feeling sorry for yourself. No one is going to hand you shit. Tourist town, big city. Small town, whatever.
You just go to the capital tree and get the startup money!
That’s my point. I started mine with about 100$. If you can’t get that. Go sell Kool aid. Shit it you can’t afford that ask anyone for a dollar, go buy some, and start making something. People want to be handed everything.
Sure is amazing how everyone online is a self-made millionaire
I never said millionaire. Not even close. I make enough to pay my rent, bills, and go on a couple vacations to see my grandchild. Don’t know why making a living suddenly equates into millions.
That’s a nice anecdote, but it’s not the argument for tourist towns you think it is. You’re merely arguing that they should aspire to join the ranks of the advantaged, at the expense of the poor. Not that the rich aren’t advantaged at the expense of the poor.
“Just start a business lol” is also an argument used to defend trickle down economics. But you know as well as I, it’s no panacea.
How arrogantly presumptive of you. If I told you I’m comfortable, and have no want or need for people to “hand me shit”, would you respect my opinion more? Would you like to try again without the failed economic policy, anecdotal non-sequitors, or the classist ad-hominems?
Dude let me tell you this. I was poor like dirt poor for years. I’ve been homeless with my kids more than once. I have suffered I have seen it all I have been to the food banks I have relied on churches and people to pay my rent just so I could have a place to live. Don’t fucking talk to me about being poor and being privileged and suffering. Shit when I started my business I literally quit my job took my paycheck that I had for 2 weeks and that’s what I had for my business and pay my rent and to pay my bills I didn’t even own a car when I started my business. So don’t fucking tell me what a poor person can or cannot do if that person is fucking motivated and can actually get off their fucking ass still fucking do it. I come from a small goddamn town I know what it’s like to live in a small town. Tourist towns are no different than anywhere else they just have more opportunity to have people show up. Shit if I lived in a tourist town I’d be out there selling Kool-Aid on the side of the road I’d be making t-shirts and printing them. Depending on where I was at I’d be doing something local and making people hand over money hand over fist. You don’t got to be privileged you don’t got to do anything you just got to understand that you’re hungry and that you got a fucking make money. People are so fucking privileged they don’t know how to do shit anymore. Fuck all of you people that think they got to be handed everything fuck all you people that think that you got to be fucking rich to have anything in your fucking life. you guys are all just fucking assholes when it comes down to it. And fuck you people that live in tourist towns that think you would be better off without those fucking tourists and their deep pockets coming through. I’ve seen all of the towns in Utah Wyoming Nevada Colorado Idaho Montana Arizona New Mexico that don’t have tourism industries those are the poorest fucking towns in the world and there ain’t shit to do in any of them and there ain’t fucking work to find anywhere. I literally drive through towns where there’s two families and that’s the population of the fucking town. Because nobody lives there anymore because every fucking person knows they have to move because you have to feed your family you have to have a place to live you don’t just get handed something shit even if you handed a house how the fuck are you going to pay for it when there’s nobody else to bring in any sort of money. Fucking people don’t know shit and it’s fucking hilarious thinking that they could go out and do any of that fucking shit without that money coming into their fucking pockets. It’s not about being rich it’s not about the people that own the businesses God damn all the people work in the cashiers all the fucking people working at the fast food places all the people waiting tables at all those places they’re making fucking money they got money coming in and they get paid better than most of the people in the big cities get fucking paid. Yeah they’re having issues paying the rent but guess what everybody in the cities are having issues paying the rent also people are having to live with other people because rent has gone so fucking high and that’s because greedy fucking people at the top are charging more and more and more and they don’t fucking care anymore. But that doesn’t mean that we can’t fight back that doesn’t mean that we can’t grab a little bit of that money for ourselves and try to fucking make as much money as possible. So fuck you guys for thinking that you can’t fucking do it fuck you guys for thinking it’s trickle down economy shit it ain’t trickle down economy it’s grab whatever the fuck you can economy if that starts as trickle down and then you end up making money out of it that’s what it’s all fucking about.
TL;Dr: you: lots of people gave me lots of handouts, I’m good and should be listened to. Also you: other people just want handouts, they’re bad and shouldn’t be listened to. Your position is very silly.
TL;Dr? Your wall of text started with this anecdotal non-sequitor. I can’t imagine it gets better from there, and you’ve lost the benefit of the doubt.
You aren’t describing a particularly awesome system btw: “dude, things are so good, I’ve been homeless at least twice, I couldn’t afford food at one point and I needed people to hand me shit (like food and rent)… Let me tell you how much other people want them to be handed shit.” That wonderful bit of hypocrisy is just the first few sentences. Here’s my advice: introspect.
Anyway, did you, at any point, argue I was wrong about tourist towns? I suspect not, you haven’t yet.
I have asked, and you have failed already. But could you do it without the failed economic policy, the anecdotal non-sequitors, or the classist ad-hominems this time? I’m adding being a ladder puller to the list. Who knows what other nonsense your comment was full of. Generally it’s a request to drop the nonsense please.
Just an FYI, “Pull yourself up by bootstraps” is a common defence of trickle down economics. That’s why I mocked your “just start a business lol” argument. It’s silly and you should feel silly.
You still need demand. You can’t just start a company that does whatever you wanna work in whereever you want. Though there are things you can do pretty much everywhere as long you have electricity and internet
You seem surprised.
Honestly, I was, a little. More surprised it wasn’t immediately called out for what it was.
only because tourism in these places crowds out all other industry, often on purpose
gotta keep local labor cheep for profits
What industry happens in those areas? Would you prefer a factory, maybe an oil rig. Or how about a mine. Great alternatives …
you ever actually live in a ‘tourist’ town?
name it
Hawaii had a major IT project to be an international hub, thousands of jobs. This was early 2000s. State tourism lobby killed it.
Moving to Hawaii is far different then moving to say rural Arizona.
the original post and the problems the first reply is talking about is very pertinent to Hawaii
you asked for an example, this is a real directly illustrative one
the argument was something along the lines of development harming visual appeal (while having 10 story+ apartments in Waikiki)
but it was and always is about cheap local labor to exploit
tourism does not help locals any more than trickle down economics helps the average citizen
And this is the crux of the issue people have with tourist towns as well. Tourism as an industry drives up CoL through inflated property values and increased prices for basic essentials but is a low wage industry.
An economy needs money to flow, but you need more than a low wage industry for a healthy area. Otherwise, you’ve basically just reinvented serfdom with a different product.
Reminds me of when I ran into some international students and they asked me “what is in Indiana? Who would ever live there?” Sometimes people just are born or end up places and social ties, debt, or whatever keeps them there. Moving is easy for some, remarkably hard for others.
Sure, but also people just like it. I live in Illinois about 2.5 hours out of Chicago and I love it. We have all 4 seasons, the population is roughly 400k, we have basically everything a major city has, way less traffic, cost of living is minimal (comparatively), I can travel 10 miles out and it’s farmland where we can run ATVs and dirt bikes, hunting (not my thing personally), you can easily go into Chicago if there’s a huge concert or event (we get a lot locally too).
I get that it isn’t everyone’s thing with snowing a few times a year, or you’re not an hour from a beach. But that would eventually get old after a while I’m sure.
Just saying there are plenty of reasons to pick “why would you live there” places.
once again the common brain dead take
it never fails
this idiot right here is why locals hate tourists
So tell us your take o wise one.
it’s already been made by others with obvious experience living there, you replied to it even
then you handwaved all local suffering away with the argument locals should be thankful because money
big douche energy there
Not over person has mentioned any other alternatives. It’s simply complaining.
and?
do we suddenly need alternatives to justify very real problems?
Everyone needs a job to survive in this world. Workout actually, yes. Because it’s not a problem. It’s people complaining about their way of life. Most would not be able to live in those areas without something like that.
false equivalency much?
and most still can’t live there anyway, they just have a job while not being able to afford living there
almost like you have zero actual experience living in a tourist town and ignored the point in the first post in favor of vomiting your opinion all over the place
anyway until you either admit you have no idea what you are talking about personally other than being a tourist or name an actual city you lived in with real direct experiences I’m done
Yes I have been a tourist in many many cities and I’ve seen the effect of industries. I’ve also traveled to many of the cities off the beaten path that have no tourism and have no other industries and I have witnessed how they’ve died. I was born and raised in a very small town in rural Nevada that is reliant solely upon the mining industry. I watched the ups and downs of that and I watched them trying over the last 20 years since I’ve left there try to become a tourist town and trying to encourage other industries because they realize that they have to do something and there’s no other industries out there that want to be there want to move there want to stay there and people don’t want to live there. Because there is nothing there to keep them.
Edit: also very few can afford to live in that town either the cost of living is skewed unless you are working at the mine, 12 hours a day, underground. Tourism isn’t the only thing that destroys towns
There was a time where people managed to survive with self-sustained farming in many places
Man, I had to drive from Cody to Casper back in 2013 or so… Shoshoni Wyoming looks like the zombie apocalypse already came and went. Like holy shit, what did those folks do to deserve to be stuck living there?
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