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  • PugJesus@piefed.socialEnglish
    27·
    4 days ago

    So instead of engaging with these ideas intellectually or producing counter claims, you automatically dismiss them as “Russian talking points”.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandolini's_law

    Sorry that you want fucking bizarre ideas like “Euromaidan was a far-right coup”, “Russia was just really concerned about minorities!” and “Trump was never favorable to Russian interests!” taken seriously, bootlicker.

    And funny how you ignore the actual points I brought up in refutation, but I guess the innate desire of all of Russia’s enemies to submit to imperialism and genocide is an axiom of your worldview.

    • Kabe@lemmy.worldEnglish
      3·
      4 days ago

      Funny how you call me a “bootlicker” and make loud pronouncements about my assumed worldview, when I expressly did not claim to support Russia nor the invasion of Ukraine.

      Like I said, dare to question the orthodox, black-and-white view of this conflict and it quickly devolves into shouting and name-calling.

      • PugJesus@piefed.socialEnglish
        20·
        4 days ago

        Funny how you call me a “bootlicker” and make loud pronouncements about my assumed worldview, when I expressly did not claim to support Russia, or it’s invasion of Ukraine.

        “I just spread blatantly untrue Russian talking points in support of their war aims, I’m not actually in support of them! 😭”

        Boot leather taste good, buddy?

        Still no response to the actual points I raised either, despite your whingeing about me bringing up that your sources were all common and blatant propaganda canards.

        Like I said, with this conflict it’s either black or white apparently.

        …

        God forbid I hear your opinions on the very reasonable war aims of that Hitler fellow back in 1939. Wouldn’t want to see things as just ‘black or white’ after all.

        Maybe imperialism and fucking genocide is bad?

        No, of course not. It’s the Ukrainians who are wrong. And the West was clearly puppeteering them into defending themselves.

        Like I said, dare to question the orthodox, black-and-white view of this conflict and it quickly devolves into shouting and name-calling.

        Sorry that you want to spread pro-genocide talking points and be treated with asspats instead of disdain. Maybe go find a circle of like-minded pro-genocide types, like a Zionist forum, for example.

        • Kabe@lemmy.worldEnglish
          2·
          3 days ago

          Maybe imperialism and fucking genocide is bad?

          Well we agree on this, at least.

          To your points, as far as I could make them out:

          1. “US interference in Euromaidan is a conspiracy theory” - Public actions and statements by U.S. officials during Maidan (Victoria Nuland meeting protesters, leaked Nuland–Pyatt call discussing preferred Ukrainian political figures) are evidence of U.S. diplomatic involvement and attempts to influence the post‑Maidan government. Also, the new goverment formed close ties with Western intelligence agencies, including creating CIA bases in Ukraine to coordinate activities against Russia and various training programs for Ukrainian commandos and other elite units.

          2. “NATO is merely a “defensive alliance” and not a credible threat to Russia” - NATO forces have been used to further western imperialism (which you claim to be against, no?) in places like Libya and Afghanistan. Structurally, it ensures that European members stay subservient to Washington and broadly fall in line with US foreign policy. The addition of multiple countries like Poland, Finland, Hungary and the Baltic States were obviously seen by Russia as signs of encroachment beyond NATO’s original mandate.

          • PugJesus@piefed.socialEnglish
            21·
            3 days ago

            Well we agree on this, at least.

            Clearly we don’t, as you consider Ukraine’s resistance to its territory being annexed and its people genocided to be the function of NATO puppeteering.

            “US interference in Euromaidan is a conspiracy theory” - Public actions and statements by U.S. officials during Maidan (Victoria Nuland meeting protesters, leaked Nuland–Pyatt call discussing preferred Ukrainian political figures) are evidence of U.S. diplomatic involvement and attempts to influence the post‑Maidan government.

            “It’s debatable whether it was actually a CIA coup!” and “The literal US ambassador to Ukraine discussing the political situation with the assistant secretary of state” are fucking miles away from each other, but that kind of motte-and-bailey argument is the bread-and-butter of far-right bootlickers.

            “NATO is merely a “defensive alliance” and not a credible threat to Russia”

            NATO is absolutely a credible threat to Russian imperialist ambitions.

            NATO forces have been used to further western imperialism (which you claim to be against, no?) in places like Libya

            Western Imperialism is when the UN approves a no-fly zone in an uprising against a brutal dictator, and the more the UN approves it, the more Imperialism it is.

            and Afghanistan.

            You mean the only time in NATO’s history when Article 5 was fucking invoked? Jesus Christ.

            Structurally, it ensures that European members stay subservient to Washington and broadly fall in line with US foreign policy.

            Fucking what.

            The addition of multiple countries like Poland, Finland, Hungary and the Baltic States were obviously seen by Russia as signs of encroachment beyond NATO’s original mandate.

            Yes, how dare those countries desire a defensive alliance against the possibility of foreign intervention. Russia will have to invade multiple neighboring countries to show them how baseless their fears of invasion are!

            It astounds me the level of bootlicking campists are willing to engage in.