If only other types of taxes could be used to pay for roads… But alas, only gas taxes can be used for that. Entirely different monetary system, that. Roads need gas money and regular money just won’t do.
Other types of taxes are exactly what this article is about. A flat tax for EV owners is their proposed solution to the problem. Sure, other options exist, but people are commenting like this is an insane idea and it’s pretty vanilla.
The proposed EV tax would require almost 20k miles a year in order to break even if you compared a 24 mile/g ICE vehicle. That’s what is stupid about the entire thing. there is a super obvious vendetta and it isn’t to supplement the tax system. How many people put 20k miles on their vehicle a year? I know I’m on the lower end, but I barely got 3k miles over the last 2 years because my car doesn’t have to leave my house much. Back when I had to commute 30 minutes 5 days a week for work, I would do maybe 10k per year. The 24m/g is a the low end as well. Most consumer ICE vehicles are even more fuel efficient than that, with the US national average according to the EPA being 27.1 miles per gallon across all manufacturers in 2023 and that raising to 28.1 by 2025.
With the national annual mileage average being at 13,474 miles (per the federal highway administration). Why should an EV be forced to pay a flat rate that is the equivalent of 22,907.6 miles for an ICE vehicle(assuming national averages). That’s nearly double the price of it’s ice counterpart which doesn’t use a flat rate.
If they were serious about this supplementing the system, it would be based off mileage, since all vehicles require yearly registration with mileage anyway. In my eyes this is clearly intended to push people away from EV’s.
When Washington state used to do emissions testing we would take our cars through a place every 2 years where they put test equipment on it. If they could afford to run that whole operation I really don’t see why it wouldn’t work to have electric cars stop at a licensing office once a year for an odometer reading, and base the elecric car fee on the mileage. So simple. There’s no excuse at all for charging all EV drivers the same flat fee no matter how much (or little) we drive. For me the annual fee is twice as much as the gas tax I would pay if I drove a hybrid. That kind of sloppiness is unconscionable.
edit: emissions testing was every 2 years not every year.
Yes that system would work but I’m not sure how you arrived at the conclusion that “inspect every EV in the country” is simpler than “flat tax on EVs”. Running inspections at that scale seems multiple orders of magnitude more complex than a one time fee.
No, I’m talking about Washington state. How other states do it is none of my business.
No, I never said taking odometer readings was simpler than collecting a flat fee, I said it was fair and a flat fee is unfair.
Charging a flat gas tax would be simpler than metering every gallon of gasoline sold, but it wouldn’t be fair, and we don’t do that. So why should we do it for EVs?
Oregon has a pay-per-mile system that would be more fair, IMO. Not sure if they still have it but at one point, they let you choose between having a tracker or just self-reporting your mileage.Makes sense if you use the road less, you should pay less and vice-versa.
Flat tax just spreads the estimated additional wear and cost around to everyone, like going out to dinner with a group and splitting the bill evenly vs just paying for what you ordered. I’d rather just pay for what I ordered.
14,500 miles driven here mostly for work and family. Even if it was 5 cents a mile that’d be $700+ in taxes a year just to operate a vehicle. What’s really funny is how dependent our American cities are on cars, you’re stuck needing one, but eventually you won’t afford one due to taxes.
“fair” is often ascribed to pay as you go (and flat taxes) flat taxes, but they are both biased toward working people. Add road maintenance budget to progressive income tax and make rich people pay a bigger share. they can afford it.
More fair would be to pay for road wear and tear. Bigger cars do more damage to roads, and semis do exponentially more. Drop the gas tax and charge per mile scaled to the weight of your half loaded vehicle.
I pay my EV fee ($175 every year) even tho I barely drive, which is why I got an EV (old car needed to be replaced anyway). In the last year prior to getting an EV, I filled up my 10-gallon tank maybe four times. At 18 cents per gallon I probably paid $8 toward road repair via gas taxes, so I’m paying way way way more now. Farm equipment doesn’t pay shit to fix the copious damages they cause going between their fields, since most of their gas use isn’t on the roads and many large farms have their own fuel pumps and buy bulk.
I like your proposal, but I’d add a HUGE flat fee to large farm equipment, or just entirely ban it from paved roads, where it very specifically is not meant to be.
pay as you go and flat taxes are biased toward working people. Add this to progressive income tax and make rich people pay a bigger share. they can afford it.
I own an EV and already pay an extra road tax for having an EV to my state, on top of more for tires, more for insurance, more for repairs, and more for public fast charging thanks to the government’s failure to build up charging infrastructure at a decent pace. Why should I pay another tax to the federal government?
The “if things weren’t insane right now” answer is that state taxes don’t directly go to support the federal highway system, that’s funded through things like gas tax as well. The current real answer is “fuck you and your tamed lightning car, liberal”
You could do that but it’s considerably more complicated than a flat tax. I would much rather pay a flat fee to not have to deal with inspections and/or tracking mileage.
Presumably your car has an annual safety inspection. The inspection could include writing down your milage, right? I’m pretty sure there are already laws against tampering with your odometer…
they want you trapped in the fossil fuel death spiral
its like the coal thing in west virginia they held on to it till thier last dying breath, except its now country wide but with OIL.
Fuel taxes pay for roads. If you don’t buy fuel you don’t help pay for roads to drive your EV on.
EVs already pay electricity tax when they charge. We don’t need to double tax EV ownership.
If only other types of taxes could be used to pay for roads… But alas, only gas taxes can be used for that. Entirely different monetary system, that. Roads need gas money and regular money just won’t do.
Other types of taxes are exactly what this article is about. A flat tax for EV owners is their proposed solution to the problem. Sure, other options exist, but people are commenting like this is an insane idea and it’s pretty vanilla.
The proposed EV tax would require almost 20k miles a year in order to break even if you compared a 24 mile/g ICE vehicle. That’s what is stupid about the entire thing. there is a super obvious vendetta and it isn’t to supplement the tax system. How many people put 20k miles on their vehicle a year? I know I’m on the lower end, but I barely got 3k miles over the last 2 years because my car doesn’t have to leave my house much. Back when I had to commute 30 minutes 5 days a week for work, I would do maybe 10k per year. The 24m/g is a the low end as well. Most consumer ICE vehicles are even more fuel efficient than that, with the US national average according to the EPA being 27.1 miles per gallon across all manufacturers in 2023 and that raising to 28.1 by 2025.
With the national annual mileage average being at 13,474 miles (per the federal highway administration). Why should an EV be forced to pay a flat rate that is the equivalent of 22,907.6 miles for an ICE vehicle(assuming national averages). That’s nearly double the price of it’s ice counterpart which doesn’t use a flat rate.
If they were serious about this supplementing the system, it would be based off mileage, since all vehicles require yearly registration with mileage anyway. In my eyes this is clearly intended to push people away from EV’s.
I am 100% certain my state doesn’t keep track of mileage, even superficially, because I have never looked at my odometer for any paperwork reasons.
Registration yes, mileage no, and even emission testing varies by county/city.
When Washington state used to do emissions testing we would take our cars through a place every 2 years where they put test equipment on it. If they could afford to run that whole operation I really don’t see why it wouldn’t work to have electric cars stop at a licensing office once a year for an odometer reading, and base the elecric car fee on the mileage. So simple. There’s no excuse at all for charging all EV drivers the same flat fee no matter how much (or little) we drive. For me the annual fee is twice as much as the gas tax I would pay if I drove a hybrid. That kind of sloppiness is unconscionable.
edit: emissions testing was every 2 years not every year.
Yes that system would work but I’m not sure how you arrived at the conclusion that “inspect every EV in the country” is simpler than “flat tax on EVs”. Running inspections at that scale seems multiple orders of magnitude more complex than a one time fee.
Charging a flat gas tax would be simpler than metering every gallon of gasoline sold, but it wouldn’t be fair, and we don’t do that. So why should we do it for EVs?
Oregon has a pay-per-mile system that would be more fair, IMO. Not sure if they still have it but at one point, they let you choose between having a tracker or just self-reporting your mileage.Makes sense if you use the road less, you should pay less and vice-versa.
Flat tax just spreads the estimated additional wear and cost around to everyone, like going out to dinner with a group and splitting the bill evenly vs just paying for what you ordered. I’d rather just pay for what I ordered.
14,500 miles driven here mostly for work and family. Even if it was 5 cents a mile that’d be $700+ in taxes a year just to operate a vehicle. What’s really funny is how dependent our American cities are on cars, you’re stuck needing one, but eventually you won’t afford one due to taxes.
“fair” is often ascribed to pay as you go (and flat taxes) flat taxes, but they are both biased toward working people. Add road maintenance budget to progressive income tax and make rich people pay a bigger share. they can afford it.
Oh agreed I’m all for making the rich pay their fair share. If they did maybe this wouldn’t even be a topic worth much discussion
More fair would be to pay for road wear and tear. Bigger cars do more damage to roads, and semis do exponentially more. Drop the gas tax and charge per mile scaled to the weight of your half loaded vehicle.
You should see the damage farm equipment causes.
I pay my EV fee ($175 every year) even tho I barely drive, which is why I got an EV (old car needed to be replaced anyway). In the last year prior to getting an EV, I filled up my 10-gallon tank maybe four times. At 18 cents per gallon I probably paid $8 toward road repair via gas taxes, so I’m paying way way way more now. Farm equipment doesn’t pay shit to fix the copious damages they cause going between their fields, since most of their gas use isn’t on the roads and many large farms have their own fuel pumps and buy bulk.
I like your proposal, but I’d add a HUGE flat fee to large farm equipment, or just entirely ban it from paved roads, where it very specifically is not meant to be.
pay as you go and flat taxes are biased toward working people. Add this to progressive income tax and make rich people pay a bigger share. they can afford it.
I own an EV and already pay an extra road tax for having an EV to my state, on top of more for tires, more for insurance, more for repairs, and more for public fast charging thanks to the government’s failure to build up charging infrastructure at a decent pace. Why should I pay another tax to the federal government?
The “if things weren’t insane right now” answer is that state taxes don’t directly go to support the federal highway system, that’s funded through things like gas tax as well. The current real answer is “fuck you and your tamed lightning car, liberal”
Kinda figured it was something like that, in both cases lol
Duh, the issue here is it’s a flat rate. It should just be calculated by mileage driven.
You could do that but it’s considerably more complicated than a flat tax. I would much rather pay a flat fee to not have to deal with inspections and/or tracking mileage.
Presumably your car has an annual safety inspection. The inspection could include writing down your milage, right? I’m pretty sure there are already laws against tampering with your odometer…
No, there are no annual safety inspections. Some states do emissions tests but mine does not and EVs would obviously be excluded from those anyway.
I’m so sorry. It must be terrifying knowing how many of your fellow drivers are zipping around with worn brake pads or broken turn signals. 😬
Are there no vehicle taxes in the US?
It’s the US we get taxed on everything, it just isn’t always obvious.
You pay to renew your vehicle registration. At which time you may also have to get smog tested, it’s not every year.
Fuel tax only pays 25% of the cost of roads.