• Pennomi@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    5
    ·
    edit-2
    6 hours ago

    This is a common myth, inference is not typically run at a loss, despite claims. It’s only a loss if you include staff and ongoing training costs. They could lock in their models now and be profitable if they wanted to.

    Edit: I see the comment above has changed (or I misread initially) to say the companies are running at a loss rather than inference running at a loss. Yes, that’s extremely true. Now my comment doesn’t make any sense and is irrelevant so feel free to ignore my pedantry.

    • adb@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      15
      ·
      7 hours ago

      Yes, and let’s also not count all the investments in infrastructure because you know… like training and staff it’s not a real cost that’s essential to the business.

      Anyways, you wouldn’t happened to have heard that from Anthropocene or OpenAI?

      Somehow we don’t have any actual indisputable numbers (I wonder why) but it is actually quite controversial and some of those who have done deep research on the subject are saying inference IS run at a loss and it might not get profitable ever.

      https://www.ft.com/content/fce77ba4-6231-4920-9e99-693a6c38e7d5?syn-25a6b1a6=1

      • Pennomi@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        5
        ·
        edit-2
        7 hours ago

        We do have numbers from comparably sized Chinese models.

        Yes, every AI company is bleeding money, they’re not healthy in any way. But inference by itself is profitable, based on everything that we know.

        Inference + amortizing the training costs is NOT profitable, which is what most people are talking about.

        This is easily fixed by not releasing a slightly different version every month.

    • akwd169@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      8
      ·
      7 hours ago

      “Inference is not typically run at a loss”

      Bro thats called cherry picking

      Businesses work on cash in cash out

      Right now AI companies make way less cash than they spend overall when you dont include investments

      Furthermore, most people use a free version of AI and would stop using it if it cost them anything

      Explain how to pivot to profit when the investments dry up, were all waiting

      • Pennomi@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        5
        ·
        7 hours ago

        I’m not saying they’re healthy, I’m saying that inference is the one profitable part of their business.

        They’re all going to die because training costs dwarf the inference, and training doesn’t generate ANY revenue.

      • rambling4491@feddit.online
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        6 hours ago

        Furthermore, most people use a free version of AI and would stop using it if it cost them anything

        Do companies tend to use the free version too?

    • Rentlar@lemmy.ca
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      7 hours ago

      You know that wouldn’t happen. Which AI company wants to be the one that says, “we’re happy with where the model is at right now” and stops throwing cash into the boiler of the investor hype train and let their competitors exceed them in real or imagined metrics? Clearly firms like Anthropic have to rely on circus marketing tricks like “This model is too dangerous for the general public to see! Ooooh scary! Coming Soon!”, and they can’t do that without continuous training.

      For you and I, the offline models aren’t too bad for getting little side projects started, but for major AI firms, the ongoing training cost for the next model and the one after that has become ingrained into the operating model.

      • Pennomi@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        edit-2
        6 hours ago

        I’m aware! I’m not saying they are healthy in any way. I’m just correcting that specific misinformation, because truth is important.

        These companies are fucked if they keep operating the way they currently are, and I strongly suspect it’s all going to pop like the dotcom bubble, but worse.