Definitely. I personally merge earlier, knowing it’s less efficient and will put me back relative to zipper merging - just to avoid the stress of trying to get in between potentially uncooperative mergees. But I also don’t get too mad at the mergers - maybe they’re in a legit hurry
Pushing people to seek a detour is the only effective way of actually reducing the effects of a traffic jam.
We all zipper merged back when we were traveling close to full speed. We would continue through the closure at nearly full speed, except some jackass has decided to run up to the end and come to a complete stop before attempting to merge.
Now, we all have to zipper merge at 5mph instead of full speed, because some jackass couldn’t figure out how to do it at the right time.
Anybody who has played Factorio should be able to recognize the problem. If the lane is obstructed anywhere, the capacity of the roadway is the capacity of the remaining open lanes. Filling the closed lane before the obstruction maximizes the duration of the traffic jam.
Ideally, zipper merging should start immediately after the last exit before the obstruction. It should be used to push as many people as possible to exit and seek a detour. The lane should be effectively closed from the exit before to the exit after the obstruction.
No, this “solves the problem” in the same way that moving the baggage carousel further away from the gate reduces complaints. It isn’t actually improving traffic flow; it’s making people complain about it less.
The article actually mentions zipper merging isn’t as effective at full speed.
People utilizing the closing lane up to the end frees up space at the rear, which allows more people who can take advantage of an exit shortly beforehand to actually do so.
Your stated ideal of closing the lane from the prior exit onwards isn’t practical if said exit isn’t within a reasonably short range. Never mind you’d definitely increase the number of people needlessly exiting and causing further problems on several other local roads, thereby expanding the impact rather than reducing it.
Your premise also seems to be built upon the notion of stopped traffic rather than just a forced merging into fewer (or one) lanes where traffic still can flow reasonably well once past the merge point.
I’m assuming Factorio is a factory simulation, and that would involve mechanical & physical concerns, but that’s much more consistent than the wide variety of human responses and actions in such situations.
#1 is simply false. All merging is more effective at full speed.
#2 demonstrates a lack of comprehension. With the right lane closed ahead, the slowed traffic in the left lane indicates the effects of the obstruction ahead, and informs drivers that they should exit.
If the left lane isn’t backed up, the effects of the obstruction are not severe, and there is no need to exit.
Allowing both lanes to back up introduces the worst delay, and doubles the number of vehicles needlessly exposed to that delay.
#3 correctly identifies that the load is spread among more routes, but fails to comprehend that those other routes are normally underutilized and have considerable excess capacity available to ameliorate the problem. Diverting excess traffic to routes with excess capacity is a solution, not a problem.
#4, stopped traffic is inevitable with zipper merging immediately before the obstruction. Anyone with more than a million miles of highway experience can corroborate that assertion.
I actually have that 1MM+ as a professional driver - you’re wrong, but too stubborn to admit it. I’m too tired to bother arguing with you - especially since I’ve got some more of that same work to do in the morning. I’m done. Gnite.
“Early” being relative to the specific vehicles involved. Lorries/tractor-trailers need a LOT more time to find an opening before a merge than a “four-wheeler” does, for example.
Besides, it’s long been proven that “zipper merging” - which is basically waiting up to almost the last second to merge - is the more efficient method.
That’s a training issue more than anything else. People have never been taught how to merge well, and so inevitably everybody has their own “camp” when it comes to best practices. Those who complain about “fairness” typically have a more myopic view than those who take “the big picture” into account (or they have a faulty “big picture” in mind). I’ll grant that a good number of those “cheaters” are indeed just being selfish pricks, but statistics still show that zipper merging is best in the end. Far too many people care more about their illogical feelings than the facts, tho.
Zipper merging is ideal in certain situations but not all of them. It reduces the total “length” of traffic the choke point, but doesn’t necessarily increase the total throughout. It’s primarily meant to prevent traffic from backing up to other lights and intersections on the road. The throughput optimum for lighter traffic is to merge earlier (though not miles back) to maintain speed, and people who force their way in at the last second cause the standard “traffic wave” problems. That’s why it isn’t quite as clear cut as people make it - the optimum behavior is situational and that level of complexity is not well gasped by your average person who is profoundly uncurious of the world around them.
Then there’s the issue of people wanting to zipper merge in places where it is completely inappropriate because it blocks a travel lane. This was a weekly debate on our local subreddit when I was still using it. The number of people who insisted that a highway interchange should be treated as a zipper, despite that blocking the main road, is high enough that I am convinced that the zipper narrative has been a net negative. Though I also concede that most of these people would still be idiots about it without the plausible justification for bad behavior.
It always makes sense to merge at the last safe moment, but only if everyone else is doing that which requires everyone to trust each other and I can trust myself but I can’t trust any of you fuckers, etc.
Yeah, it would take a concerted, long-running campaign to reeducate drivers on the topic, as well as a nearly unified backing from those in a position to deliver it. Considering how political issues have been going downhill for so long that we’ve effectively sunk well past unheard of new lows, I’m not holding my breath on that one even though it really shouldn’t matter that much to them to be worth fighting over.
I’d say a fair amount to have at least some idea that they’re doing things they really shouldn’t, but just DGAF. It feels like the majority of the populace have become significantly more selfish over the years, but will never admit that to themselves - let alone anyone else. It’s the dog-eat-dog mindset inching towards its inevitable end.
Some people think that if there’s a hwy lane closure in 30 miles, you’re the asshole of you don’t immediately merge over
I don’t mind personally, but don’t assume that your blinker means I HAVE to let you in
Definitely. I personally merge earlier, knowing it’s less efficient and will put me back relative to zipper merging - just to avoid the stress of trying to get in between potentially uncooperative mergees. But I also don’t get too mad at the mergers - maybe they’re in a legit hurry
And some people think inflating numbers proves their point.
Plus, If you have 30 miles of signs telling you to get over and you wait until you are forced by the actual lane closure, yes you are the asshole.
I will not be taking questions.
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2014/07/the-beauty-of-zipper-merging-or-why-you-should-drive-ruder/
Pushing people to seek a detour is the only effective way of actually reducing the effects of a traffic jam.
We all zipper merged back when we were traveling close to full speed. We would continue through the closure at nearly full speed, except some jackass has decided to run up to the end and come to a complete stop before attempting to merge.
Now, we all have to zipper merge at 5mph instead of full speed, because some jackass couldn’t figure out how to do it at the right time.
Anybody who has played Factorio should be able to recognize the problem. If the lane is obstructed anywhere, the capacity of the roadway is the capacity of the remaining open lanes. Filling the closed lane before the obstruction maximizes the duration of the traffic jam.
Ideally, zipper merging should start immediately after the last exit before the obstruction. It should be used to push as many people as possible to exit and seek a detour. The lane should be effectively closed from the exit before to the exit after the obstruction.
No, this “solves the problem” in the same way that moving the baggage carousel further away from the gate reduces complaints. It isn’t actually improving traffic flow; it’s making people complain about it less.
The article actually mentions zipper merging isn’t as effective at full speed.
People utilizing the closing lane up to the end frees up space at the rear, which allows more people who can take advantage of an exit shortly beforehand to actually do so.
Your stated ideal of closing the lane from the prior exit onwards isn’t practical if said exit isn’t within a reasonably short range. Never mind you’d definitely increase the number of people needlessly exiting and causing further problems on several other local roads, thereby expanding the impact rather than reducing it.
Your premise also seems to be built upon the notion of stopped traffic rather than just a forced merging into fewer (or one) lanes where traffic still can flow reasonably well once past the merge point.
I’m assuming Factorio is a factory simulation, and that would involve mechanical & physical concerns, but that’s much more consistent than the wide variety of human responses and actions in such situations.
#1 is simply false. All merging is more effective at full speed.
#2 demonstrates a lack of comprehension. With the right lane closed ahead, the slowed traffic in the left lane indicates the effects of the obstruction ahead, and informs drivers that they should exit.
If the left lane isn’t backed up, the effects of the obstruction are not severe, and there is no need to exit.
Allowing both lanes to back up introduces the worst delay, and doubles the number of vehicles needlessly exposed to that delay.
#3 correctly identifies that the load is spread among more routes, but fails to comprehend that those other routes are normally underutilized and have considerable excess capacity available to ameliorate the problem. Diverting excess traffic to routes with excess capacity is a solution, not a problem.
#4, stopped traffic is inevitable with zipper merging immediately before the obstruction. Anyone with more than a million miles of highway experience can corroborate that assertion.
I actually have that 1MM+ as a professional driver - you’re wrong, but too stubborn to admit it. I’m too tired to bother arguing with you - especially since I’ve got some more of that same work to do in the morning. I’m done. Gnite.
If there’s a lot of traffic it makes sense to try and find room to merge early though
“Early” being relative to the specific vehicles involved. Lorries/tractor-trailers need a LOT more time to find an opening before a merge than a “four-wheeler” does, for example.
Besides, it’s long been proven that “zipper merging” - which is basically waiting up to almost the last second to merge - is the more efficient method.
Nope. Waiting until the last second is not zipper merging.
It’s more efficient if people let you pass in front of them. Which they might not
Not very efficient if you have to stop next to a moving lane lol
That’s a training issue more than anything else. People have never been taught how to merge well, and so inevitably everybody has their own “camp” when it comes to best practices. Those who complain about “fairness” typically have a more myopic view than those who take “the big picture” into account (or they have a faulty “big picture” in mind). I’ll grant that a good number of those “cheaters” are indeed just being selfish pricks, but statistics still show that zipper merging is best in the end. Far too many people care more about their illogical feelings than the facts, tho.
Zipper merging is ideal in certain situations but not all of them. It reduces the total “length” of traffic the choke point, but doesn’t necessarily increase the total throughout. It’s primarily meant to prevent traffic from backing up to other lights and intersections on the road. The throughput optimum for lighter traffic is to merge earlier (though not miles back) to maintain speed, and people who force their way in at the last second cause the standard “traffic wave” problems. That’s why it isn’t quite as clear cut as people make it - the optimum behavior is situational and that level of complexity is not well gasped by your average person who is profoundly uncurious of the world around them.
Then there’s the issue of people wanting to zipper merge in places where it is completely inappropriate because it blocks a travel lane. This was a weekly debate on our local subreddit when I was still using it. The number of people who insisted that a highway interchange should be treated as a zipper, despite that blocking the main road, is high enough that I am convinced that the zipper narrative has been a net negative. Though I also concede that most of these people would still be idiots about it without the plausible justification for bad behavior.
Came here to find this argument.
Well done everyone!
It always makes sense to merge at the last safe moment, but only if everyone else is doing that which requires everyone to trust each other and I can trust myself but I can’t trust any of you fuckers, etc.
Yeah, it would take a concerted, long-running campaign to reeducate drivers on the topic, as well as a nearly unified backing from those in a position to deliver it. Considering how political issues have been going downhill for so long that we’ve effectively sunk well past unheard of new lows, I’m not holding my breath on that one even though it really shouldn’t matter that much to them to be worth fighting over.
We all were supposed to be taught it in drivers ed.
The problem is most people are shit drivers who don’t know the law or the rules or even the guidelines.
I’d say a fair amount to have at least some idea that they’re doing things they really shouldn’t, but just DGAF. It feels like the majority of the populace have become significantly more selfish over the years, but will never admit that to themselves - let alone anyone else. It’s the dog-eat-dog mindset inching towards its inevitable end.
Some people eat up rage bait like a fine meal
Something something milk before cereal something…
That implies taking the time to appreciate its finer qualities. I’d say it’s more like feeding time at the trough.