Ok, remove the just then, the point still stands that it is a solvable problem. We know how to make data centers, it may not be easy or cheap but it’s possible just like we know how to build car factories.
Yeah and the point is that model improvements so far have meant making huge increases in size, which offsets the datacenters scale out.
The whole point is that this is futile because we will always be playing catch-up to model sizes, to our ultimate downfall. The tech needs to be smarter not larger. That’s why the whole cloud AI business is shit and not going to work. as anyone with a brain has been saying from the beginning.
Jesus Christ man, people’s homes are being sized with eminent domain for this shit. It ain’t worth it.
This is only true if everyone is always using the top line model, which most people don’t. Both because most people just use the default, which is a low or mid tier model, and because it’s expensive. The top line models are becoming increasingly niche.
The tech needs to be smarter not larger.
I agree, that’s why more focus is being put on the harness and agent orchestration these days. You can achieve better results by having a large model orchestrate a bunch of smaller model agents to do simpler tasks then trying to have the large model one shot it. This doesn’t mean the whole cloud AI business is bullshit, they’re still going to need to build out a lot of capacity for these smaller models and still going to need large models to handle the planning and orchestration, it just means the call count for these larger models are going to be lower.
So it’s probably not going to be 1 million calls to a small model turns into 1 million calls to a larger model and the capacity never catches up, it’s going to be 1 million calls to a small model and 1,000 to a large one which is more feasible to build out.
people’s homes are being sized with eminent domain for this shit. It ain’t worth it.
I don’t agree with how the data centers are being rolled out, they can and should be built out with renewable energy and consent from the community which isn’t happening. I disagree that data centers shouldn’t be built at all or that it will be an unachievable Sisyphusian task to build them out.
I wouldn’t separate performance scalability and user scalability as they ultimately go hand in hand together.
Ok think of them as different scaling factors then, maybe n for number of requests and s for size of requests and c for complexity of requests. Scaling for n can be done horizontally by building more data centers which is possible. Scaling for s or c requires building bigger models which has diminishing returns.
Scaling for n is required to make the software business model work, like the article says. Scaling for s or c though isn’t required as long as your average user keeps those constant, which is possible.
LLMs are inefficient by design.
They are less efficient when compared to what traditional computing can already do, eg. Arithmetic, structured data analysis etc. There are things that traditional computing can’t do, eg. writing an essay, that can only be compared to the human brain which is hard to do. So you can say AI is inefficient at calculating 2 + 2 , but it’s a hard case to make that it’s inefficient at writing an essay.
Ok, remove the just then, the point still stands that it is a solvable problem. We know how to make data centers, it may not be easy or cheap but it’s possible just like we know how to build car factories.
Yeah and the point is that model improvements so far have meant making huge increases in size, which offsets the datacenters scale out.
The whole point is that this is futile because we will always be playing catch-up to model sizes, to our ultimate downfall. The tech needs to be smarter not larger. That’s why the whole cloud AI business is shit and not going to work. as anyone with a brain has been saying from the beginning.
Jesus Christ man, people’s homes are being sized with eminent domain for this shit. It ain’t worth it.
The performance per parameter has been improving steadily though. Gemma 4 is ~4o level at a fraction of the parameters.
This is only true if everyone is always using the top line model, which most people don’t. Both because most people just use the default, which is a low or mid tier model, and because it’s expensive. The top line models are becoming increasingly niche.
I agree, that’s why more focus is being put on the harness and agent orchestration these days. You can achieve better results by having a large model orchestrate a bunch of smaller model agents to do simpler tasks then trying to have the large model one shot it. This doesn’t mean the whole cloud AI business is bullshit, they’re still going to need to build out a lot of capacity for these smaller models and still going to need large models to handle the planning and orchestration, it just means the call count for these larger models are going to be lower.
So it’s probably not going to be 1 million calls to a small model turns into 1 million calls to a larger model and the capacity never catches up, it’s going to be 1 million calls to a small model and 1,000 to a large one which is more feasible to build out.
I don’t agree with how the data centers are being rolled out, they can and should be built out with renewable energy and consent from the community which isn’t happening. I disagree that data centers shouldn’t be built at all or that it will be an unachievable Sisyphusian task to build them out.
Bubble sort is also a good algorithm if we “solve” its inefficiency by using more powerful hardware. It may not be easy or cheap, but…
I wouldn’t separate performance scalability and user scalability as they ultimately go hand in hand together. LLMs are inefficient by design.
Ok think of them as different scaling factors then, maybe n for number of requests and s for size of requests and c for complexity of requests. Scaling for n can be done horizontally by building more data centers which is possible. Scaling for s or c requires building bigger models which has diminishing returns.
Scaling for n is required to make the software business model work, like the article says. Scaling for s or c though isn’t required as long as your average user keeps those constant, which is possible.
They are less efficient when compared to what traditional computing can already do, eg. Arithmetic, structured data analysis etc. There are things that traditional computing can’t do, eg. writing an essay, that can only be compared to the human brain which is hard to do. So you can say AI is inefficient at calculating 2 + 2 , but it’s a hard case to make that it’s inefficient at writing an essay.