That’s shifting the goal post to cost, and not answering my question.
Humans domesticated chickens long before factory farming existed. Animals breed of their own volition.
There ARE farms that are only end-of-life slaughter. Do not force their animals to breed, provide excellent lives, etc.
Who cares if it’s inefficient? That wasn’t the question.
I’m going to ask the same question again. Are you universally against ALL animal products on principle, or would you be okay with goats cheese, as an example, if you could be certain it had a phenomenal life?
The problem you’re describing is extremely niche. A rescued cow that is still lactating, where the calf could not be rescued, will likely need to be milked in order not to develop any issues in her udder. That milk is a byproduct of a medical procedure made necessary by the abuse she suffered. I would see to it that it gets put to use for the cow children first but in the end whether you pour it down a drain or your throat makes no difference. However that milk will dry up after a couple months anyway. No mammal produces milk just because, it is always to provide for a child.
As for if making cheese out of that milk would be vegan, it depends on the rennet I suppose. For cows you don’t have to butcher calves anymore so it’s likely gonna be possible. For goats I don’t know.
A rescued sheep might need to get shorn regularly due to a problem of its breed. However again the focus is not getting wool, it’s to help the sheep, which means it should be shorn more often than at a farm and not as close to the skin than “normally”, resulting in a poorer wool quality since the individual hairs are much shorter.
Like you could ask if eating roadkill is vegan. Sure, if it doesn’t interrupt any animals grieving process or rituals, whatever, who cares. I think our ancestors probably scavenged a lot of the animal products they used.
But there is an ethical issue with breeds that depend on humans for their survival, it’s that the people hold the power of life or death over them. There can be no meaningful consent there. Additionally they have to be held in captivity if they would die in the wild. Which is why rescued animals usually aren’t allowed to breed. They could never be allowed to breed as they wish anyway, otherwise their population might overwhelm the care humans are capable of giving them anyway, so let’s cut it off entirely.
So your hypothetical vegan animal products depend on rescue farms that would be phased out. There is no vegan way to get animal products in perpetuity.
Considering I don’t see animals as some product that exists for me so I would consider eating goats cheese in this utopian scenario the similarly as eating cheese made from human milk; really fucking weird, with the addition that human cheese would probably be made with the explicit consent of the human it stems from which the goat can never give unless you want to open the floodgates to even more sexual animal abuse
It’s wild how many people can’t separate an animal from the ways it can benefit people. If a goat is making milk, it probably has a baby to feed. The idea of just letting it feed that baby doesn’t seem to occur to people. They see the milk as a product for their own use, and if people aren’t using it, it’s “wasted.” It only makes sense if one’s never critically examined their choices in a world full of exploitation.
That’s shifting the goal post to cost, and not answering my question. Humans domesticated chickens long before factory farming existed. Animals breed of their own volition. There ARE farms that are only end-of-life slaughter. Do not force their animals to breed, provide excellent lives, etc. Who cares if it’s inefficient? That wasn’t the question. I’m going to ask the same question again. Are you universally against ALL animal products on principle, or would you be okay with goats cheese, as an example, if you could be certain it had a phenomenal life?
The problem you’re describing is extremely niche. A rescued cow that is still lactating, where the calf could not be rescued, will likely need to be milked in order not to develop any issues in her udder. That milk is a byproduct of a medical procedure made necessary by the abuse she suffered. I would see to it that it gets put to use for the cow children first but in the end whether you pour it down a drain or your throat makes no difference. However that milk will dry up after a couple months anyway. No mammal produces milk just because, it is always to provide for a child.
As for if making cheese out of that milk would be vegan, it depends on the rennet I suppose. For cows you don’t have to butcher calves anymore so it’s likely gonna be possible. For goats I don’t know.
A rescued sheep might need to get shorn regularly due to a problem of its breed. However again the focus is not getting wool, it’s to help the sheep, which means it should be shorn more often than at a farm and not as close to the skin than “normally”, resulting in a poorer wool quality since the individual hairs are much shorter.
Like you could ask if eating roadkill is vegan. Sure, if it doesn’t interrupt any animals grieving process or rituals, whatever, who cares. I think our ancestors probably scavenged a lot of the animal products they used.
But there is an ethical issue with breeds that depend on humans for their survival, it’s that the people hold the power of life or death over them. There can be no meaningful consent there. Additionally they have to be held in captivity if they would die in the wild. Which is why rescued animals usually aren’t allowed to breed. They could never be allowed to breed as they wish anyway, otherwise their population might overwhelm the care humans are capable of giving them anyway, so let’s cut it off entirely.
So your hypothetical vegan animal products depend on rescue farms that would be phased out. There is no vegan way to get animal products in perpetuity.
Considering I don’t see animals as some product that exists for me so I would consider eating goats cheese in this utopian scenario the similarly as eating cheese made from human milk; really fucking weird, with the addition that human cheese would probably be made with the explicit consent of the human it stems from which the goat can never give unless you want to open the floodgates to even more sexual animal abuse
It’s wild how many people can’t separate an animal from the ways it can benefit people. If a goat is making milk, it probably has a baby to feed. The idea of just letting it feed that baby doesn’t seem to occur to people. They see the milk as a product for their own use, and if people aren’t using it, it’s “wasted.” It only makes sense if one’s never critically examined their choices in a world full of exploitation.