So, you comdemn all the project because its founder just happened to have an opinion you don’t like about a topic
completely disconnected from the software world ?
The anti DEI stuff is in the project readme and the anti vax bullshit was on the lkml. So I think the auther can not keep his ‘opinions’ and politics out of his projects.
If he uses his software work to promote potentially dangerous believes, I don’t think the project should be supported or promoted
So far, his alleged opinions are more spread out by his detractors than by himself. Imo, this project brings more diversity of choice in the foss world, and that’s a good thing. I have nothing against wayland, but a de facto monopoly is never desirable.
Tbh, I’m far more concerned by the hostility to this fork.
His opinion is literally on the frontpage of his project on github, there is nothing ‘alleged’ about it. I don’t think the project can be separated from his opinions
The readme seems to contradict itself, the second part of Leny’s quote looks like real DEI.
Hence we can assume that the first DEI entrance is dei-as-implemented-by-xorg-team, which
he obviously doesn’t like. Simple assumption, the best would be to ask him.
This isn’t coherent, and even if it was, the burden of stance interpretability is context-dependent.
He is the one with the politically charged README that reads plainly like the thoughtless garbage MAGA types in America put out. I mean cmon man, “[…] we’ll make X great again”?
Also your shallow and brainless dismissal of all this criticism coming from his “detractors” (and who would not become a “detractor”, after actually investigating his terrible dribble?) is defeated easily by just reading the actual words he said.
These are not alleged opinions, he’s just full of shit.
And this isn’t even mentioning the fact that Xorg is going to be dead, should be dead, and will continue to die. And good riddance, too! Terrible and borderline unmaintainable.
The argument that choice diversity is good inherently is stupid, too. Wayland is a god damned protocol! There is no reason to have lots of diversity there! It has no tangible benefit.
There are already many different compositors that implement the Wayland protocol, and there are also many 3rd party extensions! Can you think of a single, material benefit to simply having different basic desktop protocols?
Also your shallow and brainless dismissal of all this criticism coming from his “detractors” (and who would not become a > “detractor”, after actually investigating his terrible dribble?) is defeated easily by just reading the actual words he said.
I was merely pointing out that these opinions, whatever they really are, have more publicity from people
criticizing the founder. The best from your point of view would be not to speak about it.
And this isn’t even mentioning the fact that Xorg is going to be dead, should be dead, and will continue to die. And good
riddance, too! Terrible and borderline unmaintainable.
If it were true, all this hatred against the project would be pointless.
The argument that choice diversity is good inherently is stupid, too. Wayland is a god damned protocol! There is no reason > to have lots of diversity there! It has no tangible benefit.
Free software is all about freedom, and diversity means freedom of choice. If you don’t agree
with that, you miss the all point.
I was merely pointing out that these opinions, whatever they really are, have more publicity from people criticizing the founder.
Why yes, friend, I will just conveniently pretend that you bringing that up is completely outside the context of whether or not to seriously consider the criticism.
And if you are trying to make a point of whether or not the ideology is seriously impacting the project, you need-only take a casual walk through the issue list, and find (among other evidence) that a suggestion to move to codeberg was criticized for… “DEI”. Wow. How technically-focused.
The best from your point of view would be not to speak about it.
You are getting more and more incoherent the more of these replies you churn out. What, precisely from my point of view (which I guess apparently you know very well? the irony…) here implies that “not talking about it” is the best choice? That’s absurd.
I find it very important to understand the motivations, technical and ideological, behind a project.
If it were true, all this hatred against the project would be pointless.
I don’t spend any effort talking about in any other respect than telling people that they should likely disregard if for both technical reasons (it cuts out Xwayland, his commits frequently lead to very blatant regressions that are nontrivial, etc.) and ideological (his terrible, awful politics and motivations for making the project, to begin with!)
The reason I replied to your comment is mostly out of idle curiosity and a deepseated longing for genuineness and critical thinking of other people that I have not yet managed to kill (despite its impracticality in the modern age).
Free software is all about freedom, and diversity means freedom of choice. If you don’t agree with that, you miss the all point.
This is all such a massive and disheartening reduction of what software freedom is. I hope that you eventually manage to think less shallowly about this.
Tell me, do you have any particular, material distinction you are making by making a choice between desktop protocols? The desktop protocol is a purely technical thing, and I have not heard a single peep out of you in regards to specifics.
To elaborate, in Xorg, it is a very monolithic beast. It is very convoluted in its purview and carries a lot of preset implementation of its various facets. It contains an entire networking stack for deciding how to communicate windows over a network.
It is significantly less flexible and modular than Wayland, because in Wayland basically everything of significance is decided by the compositor.
This, ironically to your point, actually gives you more choice and freedom in how things work (this is also why tiling window managers love wayland to death, it’s pretty easy to just build upon the basic wlroots implementation!). So I have to ask you, frankly, what in the fuck do you think you’re actually saying right now?
The issue, in this way, is that you only seem to care about software freedom in the sense of the abstract concept rather than the reality. You seem to think of software freedom in the sense of “I either build and install this package, or I build and install this one”, with an all-consuming disregard for the technical aspects of freedom. Which is impractical, and arguably antithetical to the very process of trying to foster software freedom to begin with. As evident by literally everything to do with this situation. My lord.
Found the useful idiot. You’re willfully ignoring the racist dogwhistles. That either makes you a supporter or a fellow traveler. Either way, you’re complicit and not innocent.
You’re all wrong, it’s only that you seem to fear a readme almost no user will ever read.
Don’t worry, it’ll be fine. If this file were the only issue with this world, we’d live in a paradise.
Also the guy got told off by Linus Torvalds for being an anti-vaxxer https://www.theregister.com/2021/06/11/linus_torvalds_vaccine_smackdown/
So imo this isn’t a project that should be supported
So, you comdemn all the project because its founder just happened to have an opinion you don’t like about a topic completely disconnected from the software world ?
The anti DEI stuff is in the project readme and the anti vax bullshit was on the lkml. So I think the auther can not keep his ‘opinions’ and politics out of his projects. If he uses his software work to promote potentially dangerous believes, I don’t think the project should be supported or promoted
So far, his alleged opinions are more spread out by his detractors than by himself. Imo, this project brings more diversity of choice in the foss world, and that’s a good thing. I have nothing against wayland, but a de facto monopoly is never desirable. Tbh, I’m far more concerned by the hostility to this fork.
His opinion is literally on the frontpage of his project on github, there is nothing ‘alleged’ about it. I don’t think the project can be separated from his opinions
The readme seems to contradict itself, the second part of Leny’s quote looks like real DEI. Hence we can assume that the first DEI entrance is dei-as-implemented-by-xorg-team, which he obviously doesn’t like. Simple assumption, the best would be to ask him.
This isn’t coherent, and even if it was, the burden of stance interpretability is context-dependent.
He is the one with the politically charged README that reads plainly like the thoughtless garbage MAGA types in America put out. I mean cmon man, “[…] we’ll make X great again”?
Also your shallow and brainless dismissal of all this criticism coming from his “detractors” (and who would not become a “detractor”, after actually investigating his terrible dribble?) is defeated easily by just reading the actual words he said.
As in, for instance, the original source of his garbage antivax posturing that he posted in the linux kernel mailing list: https://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/2106.1/04542.html .
These are not alleged opinions, he’s just full of shit.
And this isn’t even mentioning the fact that Xorg is going to be dead, should be dead, and will continue to die. And good riddance, too! Terrible and borderline unmaintainable.
The argument that choice diversity is good inherently is stupid, too. Wayland is a god damned protocol! There is no reason to have lots of diversity there! It has no tangible benefit.
There are already many different compositors that implement the Wayland protocol, and there are also many 3rd party extensions! Can you think of a single, material benefit to simply having different basic desktop protocols?
I was merely pointing out that these opinions, whatever they really are, have more publicity from people criticizing the founder. The best from your point of view would be not to speak about it.
If it were true, all this hatred against the project would be pointless.
Free software is all about freedom, and diversity means freedom of choice. If you don’t agree with that, you miss the all point.
Why yes, friend, I will just conveniently pretend that you bringing that up is completely outside the context of whether or not to seriously consider the criticism.
And if you are trying to make a point of whether or not the ideology is seriously impacting the project, you need-only take a casual walk through the issue list, and find (among other evidence) that a suggestion to move to codeberg was criticized for… “DEI”. Wow. How technically-focused.
You are getting more and more incoherent the more of these replies you churn out. What, precisely from my point of view (which I guess apparently you know very well? the irony…) here implies that “not talking about it” is the best choice? That’s absurd.
I find it very important to understand the motivations, technical and ideological, behind a project.
I don’t spend any effort talking about in any other respect than telling people that they should likely disregard if for both technical reasons (it cuts out Xwayland, his commits frequently lead to very blatant regressions that are nontrivial, etc.) and ideological (his terrible, awful politics and motivations for making the project, to begin with!)
The reason I replied to your comment is mostly out of idle curiosity and a deepseated longing for genuineness and critical thinking of other people that I have not yet managed to kill (despite its impracticality in the modern age).
This is all such a massive and disheartening reduction of what software freedom is. I hope that you eventually manage to think less shallowly about this.
Tell me, do you have any particular, material distinction you are making by making a choice between desktop protocols? The desktop protocol is a purely technical thing, and I have not heard a single peep out of you in regards to specifics.
To elaborate, in Xorg, it is a very monolithic beast. It is very convoluted in its purview and carries a lot of preset implementation of its various facets. It contains an entire networking stack for deciding how to communicate windows over a network.
It is significantly less flexible and modular than Wayland, because in Wayland basically everything of significance is decided by the compositor.
This, ironically to your point, actually gives you more choice and freedom in how things work (this is also why tiling window managers love wayland to death, it’s pretty easy to just build upon the basic wlroots implementation!). So I have to ask you, frankly, what in the fuck do you think you’re actually saying right now?
The issue, in this way, is that you only seem to care about software freedom in the sense of the abstract concept rather than the reality. You seem to think of software freedom in the sense of “I either build and install this package, or I build and install this one”, with an all-consuming disregard for the technical aspects of freedom. Which is impractical, and arguably antithetical to the very process of trying to foster software freedom to begin with. As evident by literally everything to do with this situation. My lord.
Found the useful idiot. You’re willfully ignoring the racist dogwhistles. That either makes you a supporter or a fellow traveler. Either way, you’re complicit and not innocent.
You’re all wrong, it’s only that you seem to fear a readme almost no user will ever read. Don’t worry, it’ll be fine. If this file were the only issue with this world, we’d live in a paradise.