I am trying to understand as much as possible about socialism as well as other leftist ideologies, and looking around i’ve seen many being critical about democratic socialism, but i honestly struggle to understand why that is such a bad idea as some say. I get that it’s incompatible with ML, but it doesn’t sound so unrealistic and unreasonable to me, so… can you explain? Excuse the ignorance, but as i said socialism is a new topic for me, i mean no offense to anybody

  • chobeat@lemmy.ml
    7·
    4 days ago

    It’s an artifact of political debate done within the bubble of people who read too much theory or engage in discussions only with other political people. People who do politics and organizing in the real world are not so concerned about all these ideological nuances or asserting the value of one model over another.

    If you don’t have the power to change things, all these abstracts models are useless and uninteresting. Discussing how to build power in the real world is a much better way to spend your political energy.

    • Tatar_Nobility@lemmy.ml
      8·
      3 days ago

      The weapon of criticism cannot, of course, replace criticism of the weapon, material force must be overthrown by material force; but theory also becomes a material force as soon as it has gripped the masses. Theory is capable of gripping the masses as soon as it demonstrates ad hominem, and it demonstrates ad hominem as soon as it becomes radical. To be radical is to grasp the root of the matter. But, for man, the root is man himself.

      Marx, Critique of Hegel’s Philosophy of Right.

    • Revolutionary_Apples@lemmy.ml
      7·
      3 days ago

      Ew, no. There is a fundamental misunderstanding here. This is not merely an ideological nuance (although your opposition to that is weird and gross) Democratic Socialism vs MLs and Anarchists is primarily a discussion on the methods of leftist organization and action. MLs and Anarchists tend to believe that establishing socialism in the current system is impossible and so the only option is to violently remove the powers at be. Democratic Socialists, on the other hand, believe that socialism can be achieved through reform. A Democratic Socialist tells you to vote while a ML tells you to strike. That is the practical difference.

      • chobeat@lemmy.ml
        1·
        2 days ago

        the decision of what’s possible or impossible shoudln’t be done through ideological discourse but through empirical practice. Ideologies are not tools for strategic development and they should stop being treated as such.

        • RiverRock@lemmy.ml
          2·
          17 hours ago

          the decision of what’s possible or impossible shoudln’t be done through ideological discourse but through empirical practice

          I agree with this. However, It has now been almost two hundred years of empirical practice, and the data is in.

          • chobeat@lemmy.ml
            1·
            15 hours ago

            yeah, we know that the conditions on which these practices developed don’t exist anymore, the context keep shifting and anything that is conceptually stable for more than a decade probably is unfit to create the change we need.

      • agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works
        1·
        3 days ago

        A Democratic Socialist tells you to vote while a ML tells you to strike.

        Huh? Democratic socialists tell you to do both. My local DSA has a Labor Working Group which works closely with [EWOC](http://www…com/ https://workerorganizing.org/) to encourage unionizing and striking. Just last week I personally helped organize a workshop on unions, including discussions about historical and contemporary strikes.

        What makes you think democratic socialists don’t want to help you strike?