I guess what they mean is that liberals and fascist share a same imperialist ideal, even if they disagree on how to reach it. A bit as anarchism and communism share the same aim but with different means.
If you are favorable to the aim, the means may also matter to you. But if you are strongly opposed to the aim itself, you could get irritated if you were asked to choose the lesser evil way to reach it.
Librealism uses finance while fascism uses police and army ; of course most real regimes tend to use both at different level…
Also, liberalism value free market, while fascism don’t. Liberalism let other ideas exist (and corrupt them) while fascism doesn’t let them exist. One buy and abuse, the other one destroy ; it is not the same means (just the same aim reached).
I cannot imagine speaking on a subject like you do, while knowing fuck all about it like you do. Every ideology makes use of force (like military and police) and every ideology relates somehow to the mode of production and the resulting economy. Both liberalism and fascism allows for “other ideas” to exist - every ideology allows for such a vague vibes-based statement, please shut the fuck up when you don’t know what you are talking about.
And if you do insist on continuing this discussion then at least read what the person you are responding to wrote. Liberalism is about the right to private property and free markets, it uses force to uphold these things. It makes use of the same means as fascism, the actual thing that differs is the utopic end, but because the real material world does not care about why you do slavery, mass incarceration, bust unions, kill labor organisers, invade foreign countries in order to extract natural resources, create monopolies and all the other stuff that results from capitalism - which is the base of both ideologies - then that leads to the same end result.
Next time you’re going to talk over me about something you don’t understand, quote the part you’re responding to - and make sure there isn’t already a part directly adressing the thing you’re saying - so I can know you have actually read what I wrote. That’s basic courtesy.
I read you, but you seem very confused to me. Also, you may try to believe that Tony Blair is just a copy of Mussolini, I see clear differences in how they managed their respective country.
Also, as my aim is to resist both, I prefer try to identify each well. May it helps you more to mix them?
You pretty clearly do not read me. You talk over me and make up positions I do not hold. You write statements on subjects that I have already addressed, yet you do not acknowledge this, making this interaction far more difficult than it has to be.
Also, you may try to believe that Tony Blair is just a copy of Mussolini, I see clear differences in how they man aged their respective country.
Quote the part where I write anything that justifies this statement. Explain why the part you are quoting justifies such a reductive statement. Go through the reasoning and provide your counterargument, as a civil person does when engaged in discussion.
Since it is in your interest to oppose these ideologies, then it is likewise in your interest to understand them. That you cannot hold more than a reductive view of ideologies boiled down to “liberalism is when finance, fascism is when force” is sadly not an issue I can do anything about. I would appreciate it that you do not put your lacking understanding upon me.
I was claiming liberals and fascists use different ways. You denied it and claim they are toe same and use the same way.
So I toou a typically liberal leader (Blair) and a typical fascist leader (Mussolini) so you can show me how they have handled their country the same.
If you find differences, it may help you at fighting them both. If you want to make me believe they are the same, you will need to erase my history knowledges first. Or may you can point at historical things that support your views?
Fascism is the bourgeoisie’s fighting organisation that relies on the active support of Social-Democracy. Social-Democracy is objectively the moderate wing of fascism. There is no ground for assuming that the fighting organisation of the bourgeoisie can achieve decisive successes in battles, or in governing the country, without the active support of Social-Democracy. There is just as little ground for thinking that Social-Democracy can achieve decisive successes in battles, or in governing the country, without the active support of the fighting organisation of the bourgeoisie. These organisations do not negate, but supplement each other. They are not antipodes, they are twins. Fascism is an informal political bloc of these two chief organisations; a bloc, which arose in the circumstances of the post-war crisis of imperialism, and which is intended for combating the proletarian revolution.
Source: Section 1 of “Concerning the International Situation,” Works, Vol. 6, January-November, 1924, pp. 293-314.
This is what this person means, this is what you need to understand. It means not that they are not different, but that they are too the same thing under different light.
Sorry youre wrong, liberalism is when finance and the only state that uses force to enforce itself and its ideology is fascism apparently. When liberals beat the shit out of labour organisers thats just finance and when they sell slaves thats something the slaves just go along with and when fascists privatise state infrastructure then thats not finance.
Its pretty simple. Read what I wrote. Quote the text. Explain how the quoted text fits your assertion.
I assume you do not do this because you are aware you are being incredibly reductive and are essentially arguing against a fictitious position instead of the one I actually hold, because the actual position is one which no educated and reasonable person would disagree with. If that is t the case, then do the simple thing instead of continuing with this fallacious reductive presentation of my text.
It is far more simple. I do not take orders and you know how you think. If I did not get your point, explain me that I missed. If I understood you but I disagree, demonstrate your point or give me examples, so that you may convince me.
I have read that you have claims, I haven’t seen you pointing nor at ideologies, nor at historical facts, nor at some academic paper, nor at some book, nor article, nor even at a video. If nothing supports your claim, it makes them far from obvious in my mind.
Socialists (including communists) and anarchists splited from their union it the first International, because they disagreed on how to proceed after the revolution (with or without a State). But they were in the first International for the same aim.
(And soc-dem too, separation between them and communists is what splits the second International. soc-dem leaders are often disguised liberals, but soc-dem workers are often genuine socialists).
I guess what they mean is that liberals and fascist share a same imperialist ideal, even if they disagree on how to reach it. A bit as anarchism and communism share the same aim but with different means.
If you are favorable to the aim, the means may also matter to you. But if you are strongly opposed to the aim itself, you could get irritated if you were asked to choose the lesser evil way to reach it.
No, liberalism leads to fascism as I just explained. Liberalism is in no way opposed to “the means” as you put it.
Librealism uses finance while fascism uses police and army ; of course most real regimes tend to use both at different level…
Also, liberalism value free market, while fascism don’t. Liberalism let other ideas exist (and corrupt them) while fascism doesn’t let them exist. One buy and abuse, the other one destroy ; it is not the same means (just the same aim reached).
I cannot imagine speaking on a subject like you do, while knowing fuck all about it like you do. Every ideology makes use of force (like military and police) and every ideology relates somehow to the mode of production and the resulting economy. Both liberalism and fascism allows for “other ideas” to exist - every ideology allows for such a vague vibes-based statement, please shut the fuck up when you don’t know what you are talking about.
And if you do insist on continuing this discussion then at least read what the person you are responding to wrote. Liberalism is about the right to private property and free markets, it uses force to uphold these things. It makes use of the same means as fascism, the actual thing that differs is the utopic end, but because the real material world does not care about why you do slavery, mass incarceration, bust unions, kill labor organisers, invade foreign countries in order to extract natural resources, create monopolies and all the other stuff that results from capitalism - which is the base of both ideologies - then that leads to the same end result.
Next time you’re going to talk over me about something you don’t understand, quote the part you’re responding to - and make sure there isn’t already a part directly adressing the thing you’re saying - so I can know you have actually read what I wrote. That’s basic courtesy.
I read you, but you seem very confused to me. Also, you may try to believe that Tony Blair is just a copy of Mussolini, I see clear differences in how they managed their respective country.
Also, as my aim is to resist both, I prefer try to identify each well. May it helps you more to mix them?
You pretty clearly do not read me. You talk over me and make up positions I do not hold. You write statements on subjects that I have already addressed, yet you do not acknowledge this, making this interaction far more difficult than it has to be.
Quote the part where I write anything that justifies this statement. Explain why the part you are quoting justifies such a reductive statement. Go through the reasoning and provide your counterargument, as a civil person does when engaged in discussion.
Since it is in your interest to oppose these ideologies, then it is likewise in your interest to understand them. That you cannot hold more than a reductive view of ideologies boiled down to “liberalism is when finance, fascism is when force” is sadly not an issue I can do anything about. I would appreciate it that you do not put your lacking understanding upon me.
I was claiming liberals and fascists use different ways. You denied it and claim they are toe same and use the same way.
So I toou a typically liberal leader (Blair) and a typical fascist leader (Mussolini) so you can show me how they have handled their country the same.
If you find differences, it may help you at fighting them both. If you want to make me believe they are the same, you will need to erase my history knowledges first. Or may you can point at historical things that support your views?
Source: Section 1 of “Concerning the International Situation,” Works, Vol. 6, January-November, 1924, pp. 293-314.
This is what this person means, this is what you need to understand. It means not that they are not different, but that they are too the same thing under different light.
Sorry youre wrong, liberalism is when finance and the only state that uses force to enforce itself and its ideology is fascism apparently. When liberals beat the shit out of labour organisers thats just finance and when they sell slaves thats something the slaves just go along with and when fascists privatise state infrastructure then thats not finance.
Its pretty simple. Read what I wrote. Quote the text. Explain how the quoted text fits your assertion.
I assume you do not do this because you are aware you are being incredibly reductive and are essentially arguing against a fictitious position instead of the one I actually hold, because the actual position is one which no educated and reasonable person would disagree with. If that is t the case, then do the simple thing instead of continuing with this fallacious reductive presentation of my text.
It is far more simple. I do not take orders and you know how you think. If I did not get your point, explain me that I missed. If I understood you but I disagree, demonstrate your point or give me examples, so that you may convince me.
I have read that you have claims, I haven’t seen you pointing nor at ideologies, nor at historical facts, nor at some academic paper, nor at some book, nor article, nor even at a video. If nothing supports your claim, it makes them far from obvious in my mind.
Communism and anarchism do not share the same aim. The only thing they have in common is that both are revolutionary.
Socialists (including communists) and anarchists splited from their union it the first International, because they disagreed on how to proceed after the revolution (with or without a State). But they were in the first International for the same aim.
(And soc-dem too, separation between them and communists is what splits the second International. soc-dem leaders are often disguised liberals, but soc-dem workers are often genuine socialists).