Who would build the Pc Hardware after the bubble bursts and all the big players are bankrupt or at least in huge financial troubles?
All the parts that are build today are unusable outside of datacenters. What we have after a crash are storage houses full of hardware incompatible with consumer PC and a shattered industry. The prices for hardware will skyrocket to mars after a crash, because not only would the demand still way outnumber the production but also would the companies have huge losses and debts and costs.
And that’s not considering the effect that a bursting bubble of that proportion would have on the global economy of the western countries, the collapses will be apocalyptic.
The last that anyone should want is a bursting of this bubble.
I’ve built mobos, I’ve added RAM to devices without expansion slots, and I’ve recovered data from smashed cellphones by extracting the flash memory. I’ve used GPUs with broken DVI/HDMI/VGA by passing the framebuffer over a <1ms 10 gbps link.
It’s doable. If I can get a b200 you better believe I’ll find a way to use it.
Great, you are one of the very few people with the knowledge and technology to perform such task, but this will not scale. I never said that people like you don’t exist, just that it makes no meaningful difference.
It will help you, it will help a few people around you, but not the million or even billion of humans who wait for hardware at the moment.
You, and a army of people with the skillset and hardware like yours, would need to work more or less for month or years to repurpose all the hardware for it to make a change.
Won’t scale? Where’s your imagination! I’ll hire people.
And, I’m not smart, and I don’t have any unique skills. On the contrary I have several mental issues and a low IQ. If I can do it, 60% of the population can.
Sounds good, unfortunately will the price for such a repurposed hardware way to high for most people to buy. Producing things by hand is expansive, mostly because of the low output over time, so either you sell it way below production costs or nearly nobody will be able to buy it. That’s why I said that it will not scale.
Even more so in a time after a huge financial collapse and with the turmoil that will follow when the current bubble burst.
And in regards of the determination: People have often times just other things on their mind or to do and/or can’t allocate resources (time, money, brain power) to learn the needed skills to do this.
That’s why we have created a system of specialized jobs after all.
If bubbles like these don’t pop we’re looking at killing the entire planet to feed the hunger of a couple tech oligarchs so like fuck it pop that bubble. The current western world is marching us towards a slow shitty apocalypse anyways might as well pull that bandaid off earlier to buy time and hope we can get on track to actually fixing shit
Killing the entire planet to feed Americans aged over 55. Who own 73% of that entire country. That’s who benefits from nvidia stock going up forevermore. Yay retirement funds.
What we need is regulations and a controlled shrinkage of that bubble, not a world shattering implosion of all finance and production markets in a huge pop.
Else we will get famine, war and absolute chaos all over the world and that will then burn the world much more then the datacenters ever could.
If there are piles of unused data center inventory laying around for super cheap, a market for them being repurposed for consumer use will happen somehow.
I’m not so sure. I’m involved in power, cooling, HVAC of data centers as an electrician. Some of these server racks are all liquid cooled and not like an AIO you slap in a desktop, it needs to handle tens of thousands of kw of heat per rack. They don’t run on typical home power, often running on high voltage like 700v DC as a source, are loud and power hungry, relying on industrial grade UPSes and power distribution units or diesel generators in the event of loss of power. They’re built for hundreds of gigabits per second networking via fibers.
I’m not involved in the nitty gritty of what every motherboard or GPU is like but these places absolutely design high level industrial enterprise gear that is specific to doing the task they need. It would take some massive redesign to be able to re-use boards but anything’s possible I guess if a company had a method of taking decommissioned gear.
The problem is they say “we will buy out your entire production capability for the next 4-5 years” to RAM and GPU and chips manufacturers, so consumer grade equipment is kind of an afterthought and thus they scale it back and jack up the prices
Lordy, what are these AI hyperscale data centers housing? A 1/3 rack switch like a Cisco 6500 would run on -48v DC if it was set up for DC power. Typical racks in colos have 2x 30a 240v circuits (L6-30R I think). Power strips supply C13/14 and C19/20 to gear.
The key part of your energy dissipation requirement is that it’s per rack. A home user wouldn’t need an entire rack of compute, so a case built for only one or two boards would have nowhere near the same cooling requirements.
Also designing a different power supply is very trivial. The silicon itself is only running at 1-2v, it’s not like they’re passing 700vdc through the actual compute boards.
The hardware can’t really be repurposed, it is build for an very specific use case.
The AI accelerators for example can’t be just used as graphic card, even if they use lots of the same parts, but the whole layout and interfaces are completely different. We are speaking of highly integrated hardware with extremely specified firmware that is guarded by sophisticated encryption layers.
Even if some hardware hackers find ways to crack, modify and repurpose some of it, then nothing on the large scale will change. Such modifications would be extremely difficult and time consuming (aka expensive) and only a very small percentage of people have the skill, knowledge and/or the equipment do do something like that.
We are far away from the 80s where it was easy to tinker with hardware.
I’m general Gamers, which lemmy has a lot of, have an interesting relationship with technology. They kind of know how it works and what it can do, but they significantly overestimate their superficial understanding.
Who’s going bankrupt? Nvidia did over 200 billion in stock buybacks and still has more money than they know what to do with. They’re preparing for the burst already, they just want everyone else to keep buying their servers in the meantime.
Nobody paying attention thinks they’ll go bankrupt. Just that demand for inference and training will subside, so those chips will find their way back into the use case from which they came.
Yeah, but when the bubble pops then all that money that was created by circlurar financing will be vanish from one second to the other. They don’t really have that money as liquid currency but it is part of a huge net of interwoven transactions between all the AI companies.
And yes, Nvidia will most likely not get bankrupt but a lot of other compaines will do, and the ones who will survive will see extremly huge losses.
The effect on the global finance market will make the Wall Street crash of 1929, the 2008 financial crisis, and all other crisis together look like a fun day in kindergarden.
Who would build the Pc Hardware after the bubble bursts and all the big players are bankrupt or at least in huge financial troubles? All the parts that are build today are unusable outside of datacenters. What we have after a crash are storage houses full of hardware incompatible with consumer PC and a shattered industry. The prices for hardware will skyrocket to mars after a crash, because not only would the demand still way outnumber the production but also would the companies have huge losses and debts and costs. And that’s not considering the effect that a bursting bubble of that proportion would have on the global economy of the western countries, the collapses will be apocalyptic.
The last that anyone should want is a bursting of this bubble.
This is only true if you want it to be.
I’ve built mobos, I’ve added RAM to devices without expansion slots, and I’ve recovered data from smashed cellphones by extracting the flash memory. I’ve used GPUs with broken DVI/HDMI/VGA by passing the framebuffer over a <1ms 10 gbps link.
It’s doable. If I can get a b200 you better believe I’ll find a way to use it.
Great, you are one of the very few people with the knowledge and technology to perform such task, but this will not scale. I never said that people like you don’t exist, just that it makes no meaningful difference.
It will help you, it will help a few people around you, but not the million or even billion of humans who wait for hardware at the moment.
You, and a army of people with the skillset and hardware like yours, would need to work more or less for month or years to repurpose all the hardware for it to make a change.
Sweet, easy money.
Won’t scale? Where’s your imagination! I’ll hire people.
And, I’m not smart, and I don’t have any unique skills. On the contrary I have several mental issues and a low IQ. If I can do it, 60% of the population can.
All they lack is determination.
Sounds good, unfortunately will the price for such a repurposed hardware way to high for most people to buy. Producing things by hand is expansive, mostly because of the low output over time, so either you sell it way below production costs or nearly nobody will be able to buy it. That’s why I said that it will not scale. Even more so in a time after a huge financial collapse and with the turmoil that will follow when the current bubble burst.
And in regards of the determination: People have often times just other things on their mind or to do and/or can’t allocate resources (time, money, brain power) to learn the needed skills to do this. That’s why we have created a system of specialized jobs after all.
If bubbles like these don’t pop we’re looking at killing the entire planet to feed the hunger of a couple tech oligarchs so like fuck it pop that bubble. The current western world is marching us towards a slow shitty apocalypse anyways might as well pull that bandaid off earlier to buy time and hope we can get on track to actually fixing shit
Killing the entire planet to feed Americans aged over 55. Who own 73% of that entire country. That’s who benefits from nvidia stock going up forevermore. Yay retirement funds.
What we need is regulations and a controlled shrinkage of that bubble, not a world shattering implosion of all finance and production markets in a huge pop. Else we will get famine, war and absolute chaos all over the world and that will then burn the world much more then the datacenters ever could.
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russia started the war in Ukraine for its own imperalist ambitions. The west is not to blame for that.
Gaza and Iran? That you can blame on the west.
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If there are piles of unused data center inventory laying around for super cheap, a market for them being repurposed for consumer use will happen somehow.
I’m not so sure. I’m involved in power, cooling, HVAC of data centers as an electrician. Some of these server racks are all liquid cooled and not like an AIO you slap in a desktop, it needs to handle tens of thousands of kw of heat per rack. They don’t run on typical home power, often running on high voltage like 700v DC as a source, are loud and power hungry, relying on industrial grade UPSes and power distribution units or diesel generators in the event of loss of power. They’re built for hundreds of gigabits per second networking via fibers.
I’m not involved in the nitty gritty of what every motherboard or GPU is like but these places absolutely design high level industrial enterprise gear that is specific to doing the task they need. It would take some massive redesign to be able to re-use boards but anything’s possible I guess if a company had a method of taking decommissioned gear.
The problem is they say “we will buy out your entire production capability for the next 4-5 years” to RAM and GPU and chips manufacturers, so consumer grade equipment is kind of an afterthought and thus they scale it back and jack up the prices
Lordy, what are these AI hyperscale data centers housing? A 1/3 rack switch like a Cisco 6500 would run on -48v DC if it was set up for DC power. Typical racks in colos have 2x 30a 240v circuits (L6-30R I think). Power strips supply C13/14 and C19/20 to gear.
It’s very new technology to reduce overall energy costs of the entire building.
The key part of your energy dissipation requirement is that it’s per rack. A home user wouldn’t need an entire rack of compute, so a case built for only one or two boards would have nowhere near the same cooling requirements.
Also designing a different power supply is very trivial. The silicon itself is only running at 1-2v, it’s not like they’re passing 700vdc through the actual compute boards.
The hardware can’t really be repurposed, it is build for an very specific use case. The AI accelerators for example can’t be just used as graphic card, even if they use lots of the same parts, but the whole layout and interfaces are completely different. We are speaking of highly integrated hardware with extremely specified firmware that is guarded by sophisticated encryption layers.
Even if some hardware hackers find ways to crack, modify and repurpose some of it, then nothing on the large scale will change. Such modifications would be extremely difficult and time consuming (aka expensive) and only a very small percentage of people have the skill, knowledge and/or the equipment do do something like that.
We are far away from the 80s where it was easy to tinker with hardware.
Lol, peak lemmy…
“destroy everyone’s retirement funds and take all the AI accelerators to use in gaming PCs!!” +20 upvotes and cheering…
“AI accelerators can’t be used for gaming… they dont even have HDMI/DP outputs.” -3 downvotes
Lol
I’m general Gamers, which lemmy has a lot of, have an interesting relationship with technology. They kind of know how it works and what it can do, but they significantly overestimate their superficial understanding.
Who’s going bankrupt? Nvidia did over 200 billion in stock buybacks and still has more money than they know what to do with. They’re preparing for the burst already, they just want everyone else to keep buying their servers in the meantime.
Nobody paying attention thinks they’ll go bankrupt. Just that demand for inference and training will subside, so those chips will find their way back into the use case from which they came.
Yeah, but when the bubble pops then all that money that was created by circlurar financing will be vanish from one second to the other. They don’t really have that money as liquid currency but it is part of a huge net of interwoven transactions between all the AI companies. And yes, Nvidia will most likely not get bankrupt but a lot of other compaines will do, and the ones who will survive will see extremly huge losses. The effect on the global finance market will make the Wall Street crash of 1929, the 2008 financial crisis, and all other crisis together look like a fun day in kindergarden.
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I mean, illegal or legal depends on who writes the rules…
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Kind of reductionist but ok
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