Also, again, if you support the dismantlement of governments that are opposed to NATO before the dismantlement of the latter, all you do is support the most prolific insert in the world.
T_F does not speak for anarchists who wholeheartly agree with the meaning of your message.
Power corrups, subjecting an healthy adult to anyone other then themselves is always harm. And even for the immature and ill we should strive to maximise their freedom and expressions.
Good governements can exist in theory but no nation on earth is even close to resembling annything but facism.
Personally i believe when a good governement will emerge it will not be any nation that provides it and instead be a set of logical open source ideas, concept and methods that may voluntarily spread amongst the self organised communities of people in however ways they choose.
Will it be perfect society… absolutely not. Bad people will still exist. But they will be smaller and less powerfull.
Well thats awkward, i was agreeing and upvoted you…
I just elaborated with an actual anarchist perspectives cause the other person stating “not even anarchist want what anarchist literaly want” was very annoying.
I was talking about existing and current or recent governments, like the UK government or the Israeli government. Same with the USSR and the US
Pretty much all governments are exploiting people in some way
Doesn’t mean I believe that the very concept of governments is bunk
Personally I think that if our leaders were young people who had older advisors to educate and guide them, then we’d have fresh and authentic leadership with decisions coming from balanced perspectives, not just billionaire pedo dinosaurs who are one missed stairstep away from death
What I will say for sure is that defecting to any warmongering faction leads to the same decline that we’ve seen in genuinely good ideas like democracy, which is now a cover for fascism. Same thing happened to protecting Jews, which devolved into Zionism once wealthy warmongers infiltrated that idea. And the same thing happened to communism
Ideas. Are. Worthless. Anything can happen to an idea no matter how good it is
Power corrups, subjecting an healthy adult to anyone other then themselves is always harm. And even for the immature and ill we should strive to maximise their freedom and expressions.
Yeah i have since looked it up and seems lotr does contain a quote that resembles this.
Its still nog very relevant. I’ve been thinking that way before i got access to the internet and saw those movies and the way the movie worded it doesnt properly fit my meaning.
I defo agree that the idea that power axiomatically corrupts doesn’t is much older than lotr. Tolkein was cribbing from the bible, perhaps unconsciously, because even for chill agnostic people like us, we were still raised in a media and political environment soaked in Christian thinking that defined the stories we’ve consumed and the ways we unconsciously see the world.
Magical thinking helps no one. Power is not a magic force that corrupts all who touch it, this isn’t Lord of the Rings. It is a social relation that allows people to more effectively work in their interests. The issue is that society in much of the world thus far has been structured such that a minority class, be they the landlords and aristocracy of feudalism or the bourgeoisie of capitalism, hold an effective monopoly. They use this monopoly to extract surplus and protect their property. The solution is not to wish away power, but to seize it and democratize it, transforming it from a tool of class exploitation into an instrument of social administration.
subjecting a healthy adult to anyone other than themselves is always harm.
By your logic, nuclear power station workers being subject to the safety team is truly harmful. An operating room being subject to a chief surgeon is another great harm.
Or is it possible that hierarchy is a useful social relation that has been reproduced across geography, centuries, and even species for a reason?
In nature, coordinated structures emerge because they solve material problems of survival and resource management. In human society, as the division of labor grows more complex, large scale production physically demands coordination, discipline, and unified direction. A factory, a railway network, or a hospital cannot run on pure consensus without collapsing.
The goal should not be to abolish all authority, which would mean abolishing industry and modern society itself. The goal should be to abolish class authority. End the subjection of people to people as exploiters, and replace it with the rational, democratic administration of things and the technical direction of production.
Your confusing hierarchy and authority, dont worry i also still mix them up sometimes.
Trusting and following a leader is not the same as being subjected to an authority.
If a chief is wrong then the assistants should be free to resist. They only follow as long as they agree with the direction.
About abolishing major parts of modern industry and society. uhm in my wildest dreams maybe. But realistically we are better of evolving things slowly
There is no magic involved in “power corrupts”, its just a way to reference the mental illnesses that emerge in people when leadership stops being contested.
But i know the community i am in, i am not really here to fight tankies, that just results in stale mate. in many ways we overlap and fight the same abstracted evils really as i welcome the resistancd against the usa. My comments are intended for other inspiring anarchists who dont know what tankies are about yet frequently end up confused when sharing opinions that they tought where aligned with the opinions expessed in the content featured on ml. Because really, many memes here are delighfully refreshing for anti-nationalists.
I am not confusing hierarchy and authority. If binding decisions are being made and enforced, then authority exists. Whether someone “agrees” with the direction is irrelevant to the material reality of the situation. If a janitor believes they have a better idea for how to run the core of a nuclear reactor, they still should not be permitted to touch it. Authority in production is simply the enforcement of the binding decisions required to keep complex systems functioning.
You casually suggest abolishing major parts of modern industry, even if “slowly.” This is nothing but a reactionary fantasy. Dismantling complex, large-scale production is deeply ableist. Sick and disabled people often rely on the highly coordinated, global production of pharmaceuticals, medical equipment, and life-sustaining infrastructure. Wishing this away privileges the temporarily able-bodied and ignores the material basis of human survival.
Furthermore, reducing class power to “mental illness” is both idealist and ableist. Capitalists and landlords do not exploit the working class because they are individually unwell. They do so because the material structure of their class position demands it. They act in their objective class interest to preserve property relations and extract surplus. Masking systemic, material exploitation as individual pathology prevents any real understanding of how society functions.
You claim your comments are meant for “inspiring” anarchists who get confused by Marxist-Leninist content. But these are not fresh insights. They are recycled, long-debunked misunderstandings and misappropriations of political concepts. Framing idealist confusion as inspiration will only mislead people who are genuinely seeking a materialist path to oppose imperialism and capitalism.
Even anarchists support various proposed sorts of governments.
What you are doing is simply ruining propaganda in support of destroying and subjugating the enemies of your empire under the guise of ‘all states/governments are bad’.
If only the empires that exist today could just eliminate eachother without taking their citizens down with them, that be something to cheer for.
We are aligned with the same abstracted enemy, the only difference is you see a head that is a solution requirring support, i see a heads of a single hydra fighting itself.
You write literally argue that the Global South should not have governments and militaries to defend against NATO. So, yes, you are a supporter of your empire, and a supporter of colonialism.
The Global South losing their ability to resist NATO would be, as you claim, better, because no more of their pesky governments. Needless to say, your leadership would love that.
I didnt make that claim. I dont know who you are refering to that would be “my leaders”. If they are an authority, and enforce tings onto others i oppose them, i have yet to find any exceptions
Why would they love getting abolished themselves? That makes so little sense.
As long as the hydra has any heads left i will oppose it. One head eating another does not make the problem go away but i am not going to oppose the heads fighting eachother.
You have been claiming that all governments are bad (probably even “equally” as bad as each other, considering your “same hydra” comment), and that no government should be supported, and that they should all go down.
That means, in particular, that you would welcome the destruction of the governments of the Global South that are opposed to NATO, even before NATO is dismantled.
That would obviously be good for your empire. That means that you do support your empire.
I dont know who you are refering to that would be “my leaders”.
You support the advancement of the interests of your empire’s leadership. So, they are your leaders.
If they are an authority, and enforce tings onto others i oppose them, i have yet to find any exceptions
You are running the same pro-colonial sort of propaganda under the guise of “I’m against all governments” that your empire has been promoting.
Also, you might not even be against all governments, as you claim you are. I’d like to hear your opinion on how the Ukrainian government should disband immediately.
Why would they love getting abolished themselves? That makes so little sense.
NATO wouldn’t abolish itself. But the dismantlement of the governments that oppose it would, according to you, be good.
As long as the hydra has any heads left i will oppose it. One head eating another does not make the problem go away but i am not going to oppose the heads fighting eachother.
Okay, so, how are the heads to be undone in a way that leaves the hydra with no heads, then?
Any existing government
Liberals oppose all wars except the current one and support all revolutions except the succesful ones
I’m not a liberal, and I don’t support any war
Not even anarchists support that.
Also, again, if you support the dismantlement of governments that are opposed to NATO before the dismantlement of the latter, all you do is support the most prolific insert in the world.
T_F does not speak for anarchists who wholeheartly agree with the meaning of your message.
Power corrups, subjecting an healthy adult to anyone other then themselves is always harm. And even for the immature and ill we should strive to maximise their freedom and expressions.
Good governements can exist in theory but no nation on earth is even close to resembling annything but facism.
Personally i believe when a good governement will emerge it will not be any nation that provides it and instead be a set of logical open source ideas, concept and methods that may voluntarily spread amongst the self organised communities of people in however ways they choose.
Will it be perfect society… absolutely not. Bad people will still exist. But they will be smaller and less powerfull.
That’s not even what I was saying
Starting to think I got downvoted because no one knew what I meant
Well thats awkward, i was agreeing and upvoted you…
I just elaborated with an actual anarchist perspectives cause the other person stating “not even anarchist want what anarchist literaly want” was very annoying.
I was talking about existing and current or recent governments, like the UK government or the Israeli government. Same with the USSR and the US
Pretty much all governments are exploiting people in some way
Doesn’t mean I believe that the very concept of governments is bunk
Personally I think that if our leaders were young people who had older advisors to educate and guide them, then we’d have fresh and authentic leadership with decisions coming from balanced perspectives, not just billionaire pedo dinosaurs who are one missed stairstep away from death
Thank you for the nuance,
My views are indeed a little more radical then believing that fresh politicians is enough to get a government that does not systematically oppress.
Though other then that i think on ideals we very much align. I would love to be wrong and see things actually improving.
Though that line of thinking is not going to save you from downvotes in this community i fear. Tankies are very passionate.
What I will say for sure is that defecting to any warmongering faction leads to the same decline that we’ve seen in genuinely good ideas like democracy, which is now a cover for fascism. Same thing happened to protecting Jews, which devolved into Zionism once wealthy warmongers infiltrated that idea. And the same thing happened to communism
Ideas. Are. Worthless. Anything can happen to an idea no matter how good it is
What must be done well is its execution
LOTR was a mistake seriously.
What does lotr have to do with any of this?
You must surely understand what is being said by those two pieces of text back to back
Yeah i have since looked it up and seems lotr does contain a quote that resembles this.
Its still nog very relevant. I’ve been thinking that way before i got access to the internet and saw those movies and the way the movie worded it doesnt properly fit my meaning.
I defo agree that the idea that power axiomatically corrupts doesn’t is much older than lotr. Tolkein was cribbing from the bible, perhaps unconsciously, because even for chill agnostic people like us, we were still raised in a media and political environment soaked in Christian thinking that defined the stories we’ve consumed and the ways we unconsciously see the world.
Religious nonsense
Magical thinking helps no one. Power is not a magic force that corrupts all who touch it, this isn’t Lord of the Rings. It is a social relation that allows people to more effectively work in their interests. The issue is that society in much of the world thus far has been structured such that a minority class, be they the landlords and aristocracy of feudalism or the bourgeoisie of capitalism, hold an effective monopoly. They use this monopoly to extract surplus and protect their property. The solution is not to wish away power, but to seize it and democratize it, transforming it from a tool of class exploitation into an instrument of social administration.
By your logic, nuclear power station workers being subject to the safety team is truly harmful. An operating room being subject to a chief surgeon is another great harm.
Or is it possible that hierarchy is a useful social relation that has been reproduced across geography, centuries, and even species for a reason?
In nature, coordinated structures emerge because they solve material problems of survival and resource management. In human society, as the division of labor grows more complex, large scale production physically demands coordination, discipline, and unified direction. A factory, a railway network, or a hospital cannot run on pure consensus without collapsing.
The goal should not be to abolish all authority, which would mean abolishing industry and modern society itself. The goal should be to abolish class authority. End the subjection of people to people as exploiters, and replace it with the rational, democratic administration of things and the technical direction of production.
Your confusing hierarchy and authority, dont worry i also still mix them up sometimes.
Trusting and following a leader is not the same as being subjected to an authority.
If a chief is wrong then the assistants should be free to resist. They only follow as long as they agree with the direction.
About abolishing major parts of modern industry and society. uhm in my wildest dreams maybe. But realistically we are better of evolving things slowly
There is no magic involved in “power corrupts”, its just a way to reference the mental illnesses that emerge in people when leadership stops being contested.
But i know the community i am in, i am not really here to fight tankies, that just results in stale mate. in many ways we overlap and fight the same abstracted evils really as i welcome the resistancd against the usa. My comments are intended for other inspiring anarchists who dont know what tankies are about yet frequently end up confused when sharing opinions that they tought where aligned with the opinions expessed in the content featured on ml. Because really, many memes here are delighfully refreshing for anti-nationalists.
I am not confusing hierarchy and authority. If binding decisions are being made and enforced, then authority exists. Whether someone “agrees” with the direction is irrelevant to the material reality of the situation. If a janitor believes they have a better idea for how to run the core of a nuclear reactor, they still should not be permitted to touch it. Authority in production is simply the enforcement of the binding decisions required to keep complex systems functioning.
You casually suggest abolishing major parts of modern industry, even if “slowly.” This is nothing but a reactionary fantasy. Dismantling complex, large-scale production is deeply ableist. Sick and disabled people often rely on the highly coordinated, global production of pharmaceuticals, medical equipment, and life-sustaining infrastructure. Wishing this away privileges the temporarily able-bodied and ignores the material basis of human survival.
Furthermore, reducing class power to “mental illness” is both idealist and ableist. Capitalists and landlords do not exploit the working class because they are individually unwell. They do so because the material structure of their class position demands it. They act in their objective class interest to preserve property relations and extract surplus. Masking systemic, material exploitation as individual pathology prevents any real understanding of how society functions.
You claim your comments are meant for “inspiring” anarchists who get confused by Marxist-Leninist content. But these are not fresh insights. They are recycled, long-debunked misunderstandings and misappropriations of political concepts. Framing idealist confusion as inspiration will only mislead people who are genuinely seeking a materialist path to oppose imperialism and capitalism.
Even anarchists support various proposed sorts of governments.
What you are doing is simply ruining propaganda in support of destroying and subjugating the enemies of your empire under the guise of ‘all states/governments are bad’.
Lel.
If only the empires that exist today could just eliminate eachother without taking their citizens down with them, that be something to cheer for.
We are aligned with the same abstracted enemy, the only difference is you see a head that is a solution requirring support, i see a heads of a single hydra fighting itself.
You write literally argue that the Global South should not have governments and militaries to defend against NATO. So, yes, you are a supporter of your empire, and a supporter of colonialism.
You must be confusing me with someone else because nato is still the same hydra to me.
The Global South losing their ability to resist NATO would be, as you claim, better, because no more of their pesky governments. Needless to say, your leadership would love that.
I didnt make that claim. I dont know who you are refering to that would be “my leaders”. If they are an authority, and enforce tings onto others i oppose them, i have yet to find any exceptions
Why would they love getting abolished themselves? That makes so little sense.
As long as the hydra has any heads left i will oppose it. One head eating another does not make the problem go away but i am not going to oppose the heads fighting eachother.
You have been claiming that all governments are bad (probably even “equally” as bad as each other, considering your “same hydra” comment), and that no government should be supported, and that they should all go down.
That means, in particular, that you would welcome the destruction of the governments of the Global South that are opposed to NATO, even before NATO is dismantled.
That would obviously be good for your empire. That means that you do support your empire.
You support the advancement of the interests of your empire’s leadership. So, they are your leaders.
You are running the same pro-colonial sort of propaganda under the guise of “I’m against all governments” that your empire has been promoting.
Also, you might not even be against all governments, as you claim you are. I’d like to hear your opinion on how the Ukrainian government should disband immediately.
NATO wouldn’t abolish itself. But the dismantlement of the governments that oppose it would, according to you, be good.
Okay, so, how are the heads to be undone in a way that leaves the hydra with no heads, then?