HRT for underage being some limited? Can talk, sometimes kids may do not know what they want, some could verify with extra care and without ideology, if these kids are really into some other gender. Then if they are - let them be. Even before puberty (or maybe extra before). Or maybe just give them a bit of self care too? Uneasy topic, can understand some argues (whatever my personal, liberated view is on that). (with extra note, I’m totally not against hrt for trans younglings, but could talk about verification if that underage really know what they want, and that who would verify that, hope not a priest?).
HRT for adults, who may wants to decide about OWN body? Like, I can legally get a tattoo, even on face. Can get whole new hairstyle or go bald, I can buy breast augmentation, get piercing. Can buy alcohol and cigarettes that will damage my inner body for a moment of peace in my mind (with a risk of overdosing and way more damage). Can devote own life to science or some god. It is legal to do so much stuff to self… but altering gender, even makeup or some clothes… impossible nope never.
Uhm sorry, triggered and went out of a meme, again
[edit] - by hrt for youngling, I mean full scale HRT, not just blockers to delay. Delaying, giving time is imho always good.
Giving hrt to all transfolks is also big yes.
I only worry, if younglings who say they are transfolks, trully are, or they do that on a whim, phase or such. That should NOT be excuse to ban treatment, but I’m ok if young ones get some friendly verification. In oppose to adults, that should do not need any verification.
It’s all handled differently by local culture and local law, per each country. In my country, any doc can, and often do interrupt the process, faking results or simply refusing treatment as it is against personal religious believes of the doc. Personally, went thru over dozen mental health doctors in my city, and none were friendly to help (ok, one were, for 10000€ over 3 years), currently have to travel for few hours each week to get a little help, that is still interrupted by lot stuff. If we could get some friendly rules by law (and laws are made by state, don’t they?), I could maybe have some argue vs doc, currently I’m in sht.
Sorry for personal vent… guess local experiences do affect our pov. Please be assured, Imo transfolks should get best, that includes lots of autonomy.
But most HRTfor the pose under 18 is simply puberty blockers, is it not? You know, to give them more time before the crushing weight of puberty fucks then up with the wrong characteristics. :/ I know I wish I had that.
Afaik not only. Delaying is one thing, Giving other hormones is second thing.
Delaying things, totally can see to let everyone delay freely.
To replace, personally wish I could trust my kids after long talks. But can also see, most kids have nuffin than 67 memes and minecraft in their head, lot’s may want as true phase or because some idol told em to.
Even adult eggs have the rule, that none should push egg crack, but the egg must do this on its own. We do not say to person in questioning that they are this or that side. These shells on younglings gonna be extra vulnerable to media or influance… tiktok challenges “tell parents You wanna change gender and record from hidden cam”. What now?
even if some people make stupid decisions more would be allowed to make good ones. if you change the amount of lettuce in sandwiches for a large enough number of people, some of them will suffer lasting harm or death because of it. worrying that a few might be harmed when so many would genuinely benefit is fine, but holding off on the benefit because of that is just bigotry.
Oh totally agree… education to 10-12yo kids about possibilities. Full ahead! My life would be way better too, yet, I’ve learned things while around 30yo ;_;
I DO NOT call to ban HRT for young persons. Every transfolk, adult or kid should be able to be self!
I just worry if some could hurt self on a whim, while not being a trans - adult person can get responsibility on own action, but underages have some of that responsibility taken from them. I’m talking about some friendly verification, if a child saying of being trans, truly are? Are they - drop the HRT very next day!
At the same time, no, I don’t have an idea how that verification would look, hope some friendly specialists are smarter than me, and they may make decisions. Also, if they, smarter than me, make a law to let everyone easily get hrt, I wont oppose that.
I understand the secondary characteristics being an issue when you are genuinely suffering with dysmorphia. However, to the original commenter’s point, there are absolutely reports of people on all sides of transition who wish they hadn’t messed so much with formative biology.
This is not to suggest I don’t accept that some people know from birth they are inhabiting the wrong body, but there are some basic human physiological developments that puberty enables besides secondary sex characteristics. Messing with that has left a decent number of people with a body that now feels wrong on multiple levels. The characteristics one was biologically predisposed to are stunted, but the desired ones are also now incongruous because the body wasn’t given a chance to properly develop. I will admit I have seen far fewer of these cases than I have of people successfully and happily transitioning, but having a child’s voice in a rather androgynous and sad not-quite-adult body isn’t something I think most people would actually pine for regardless of current dysmorphia.
I don’t have any skin in the game myself, but I also don’t want people to suffer. HRT does need to be more readily accessible than it currently is in most of the world, but I also don’t think it should be in vending machines for the reasons I and the top commenter made.
However, to the original commenter’s point, there are absolutely reports of people on all sides of transition who wish they hadn’t messed so much with formative biology.
I genuinely didn’t read beyond this because it’s so disgustingly close to anti-trans rhetoric. However, I will operate under the assumption that was not your intent.
Anecdotally, I have never met a single person who thought they went “too far” and most are in the same boat I am, wanting more but unable to do anything due to prohibitive costs. That’s not “severe body altering” stuff it’s literally just estrogen. I am spending about 50% of my pay just so get the bare minimum. Most of the trans people I know who aren’t able to get anything else done are men trying to get top surgery.
Non-anecdotally, the only studies I’ve ever seen (which an argument could be made I don’t see these because I’m not looking) are studies showing the exact opposite- the overwhelming majority are satisfied with the progression of their transition, or wish to do more, with less than 1% of trans people having regrets.
I did admit that the proportion of people with regrets is significantly lower than those who are satisfied. I also don’t want to make anything more restrictive than it currently is, as there is a very real crisis in the US among trans people and their access to adequate compassionate care.
I apologize for having echoed sentiments that I am decidedly against personally and which are upsetting to the community at large. This is something in which I am truly supportive of the individual and their choice, but playing with body chemistry in any way is absolutely taking risks. From benadryl to testosterone and progesterone, they all come with risks and side effects.
I will also admit I don’t look for any studies on this topic as it largely doesn’t have any effect on me, so I am certain my data is skewed somewhat from reality. However even still as a person who genuinely believes people should be free to live comfortably and happily, the medically inclined part of me does balk somewhat at altering the body chemistry of any developing human; puberty sucks for basically everyone. I agree that growing bits you feel genuinely truly absolutely and in all ways do not belong to you adds an extra layer of suck on top of an already sucky time, and transitioning thereafter is a more arduous process because of that. However, messing with the actual development of the growing body is what worries me for literally any human and their continued well-being - and I couldn’t give any shits about what you’ve got in your pants or what you wish it was. Health and happiness are what I wish for all, and a fully functional body that doesn’t require constant maintenance forever after because of a decision made in your youth that could just as easily have been put off two or three more years for a better outcome is part of that wish.
This reply turned out longer than I anticipated, but I hope it is understood I truly meant no ill will.
I hope it is understood I truly meant no ill will.
I assumed that from the start, most people truly are just ignorant on the subject and only hear the loudest voices, which sadly in this case tends to be conservatives.
I’m trans, bit old even.
HRT for underage being some limited? Can talk, sometimes kids may do not know what they want, some could verify with extra care and without ideology, if these kids are really into some other gender. Then if they are - let them be. Even before puberty (or maybe extra before). Or maybe just give them a bit of self care too? Uneasy topic, can understand some argues (whatever my personal, liberated view is on that). (with extra note, I’m totally not against hrt for trans younglings, but could talk about verification if that underage really know what they want, and that who would verify that, hope not a priest?).
HRT for adults, who may wants to decide about OWN body? Like, I can legally get a tattoo, even on face. Can get whole new hairstyle or go bald, I can buy breast augmentation, get piercing. Can buy alcohol and cigarettes that will damage my inner body for a moment of peace in my mind (with a risk of overdosing and way more damage). Can devote own life to science or some god. It is legal to do so much stuff to self… but altering gender, even makeup or some clothes… impossible nope never.
Uhm sorry, triggered and went out of a meme, again
[edit] - by hrt for youngling, I mean full scale HRT, not just blockers to delay. Delaying, giving time is imho always good.
Giving hrt to all transfolks is also big yes.
I only worry, if younglings who say they are transfolks, trully are, or they do that on a whim, phase or such. That should NOT be excuse to ban treatment, but I’m ok if young ones get some friendly verification. In oppose to adults, that should do not need any verification.
My sense is this is well handled by existing structures such as medical ethics boards. Why do we need or want the state involved?
It’s all handled differently by local culture and local law, per each country. In my country, any doc can, and often do interrupt the process, faking results or simply refusing treatment as it is against personal religious believes of the doc. Personally, went thru over dozen mental health doctors in my city, and none were friendly to help (ok, one were, for 10000€ over 3 years), currently have to travel for few hours each week to get a little help, that is still interrupted by lot stuff. If we could get some friendly rules by law (and laws are made by state, don’t they?), I could maybe have some argue vs doc, currently I’m in sht.
Sorry for personal vent… guess local experiences do affect our pov. Please be assured, Imo transfolks should get best, that includes lots of autonomy.
But most HRTfor the pose under 18 is simply puberty blockers, is it not? You know, to give them more time before the crushing weight of puberty fucks then up with the wrong characteristics. :/ I know I wish I had that.
+1 for blockers.
I knew what I wanted, and hrt as a teenager would have saved a lot of self hatred and [trigger warning] type stuff over the years.
Blockers would at the very least have given me something.
but then you would have been less likely to attempt suicide and more likely to integrate into society. why would anyone want that?
Afaik not only. Delaying is one thing, Giving other hormones is second thing.
Delaying things, totally can see to let everyone delay freely.
To replace, personally wish I could trust my kids after long talks. But can also see, most kids have nuffin than 67 memes and minecraft in their head, lot’s may want as true phase or because some idol told em to.
Even adult eggs have the rule, that none should push egg crack, but the egg must do this on its own. We do not say to person in questioning that they are this or that side. These shells on younglings gonna be extra vulnerable to media or influance… tiktok challenges “tell parents You wanna change gender and record from hidden cam”. What now?
So when would you trust them? It’s ridiculous to claim that we should ban it because of TikTok or whatever.
My life could have been much different, better, if I had known about options and had any positive trans representation when I was younger.
even if some people make stupid decisions more would be allowed to make good ones. if you change the amount of lettuce in sandwiches for a large enough number of people, some of them will suffer lasting harm or death because of it. worrying that a few might be harmed when so many would genuinely benefit is fine, but holding off on the benefit because of that is just bigotry.
Oh totally agree… education to 10-12yo kids about possibilities. Full ahead! My life would be way better too, yet, I’ve learned things while around 30yo ;_;
I DO NOT call to ban HRT for young persons. Every transfolk, adult or kid should be able to be self!
I just worry if some could hurt self on a whim, while not being a trans - adult person can get responsibility on own action, but underages have some of that responsibility taken from them. I’m talking about some friendly verification, if a child saying of being trans, truly are? Are they - drop the HRT very next day!
At the same time, no, I don’t have an idea how that verification would look, hope some friendly specialists are smarter than me, and they may make decisions. Also, if they, smarter than me, make a law to let everyone easily get hrt, I wont oppose that.
Cishet-ally with a genuine concern;
I understand the secondary characteristics being an issue when you are genuinely suffering with dysmorphia. However, to the original commenter’s point, there are absolutely reports of people on all sides of transition who wish they hadn’t messed so much with formative biology.
This is not to suggest I don’t accept that some people know from birth they are inhabiting the wrong body, but there are some basic human physiological developments that puberty enables besides secondary sex characteristics. Messing with that has left a decent number of people with a body that now feels wrong on multiple levels. The characteristics one was biologically predisposed to are stunted, but the desired ones are also now incongruous because the body wasn’t given a chance to properly develop. I will admit I have seen far fewer of these cases than I have of people successfully and happily transitioning, but having a child’s voice in a rather androgynous and sad not-quite-adult body isn’t something I think most people would actually pine for regardless of current dysmorphia.
I don’t have any skin in the game myself, but I also don’t want people to suffer. HRT does need to be more readily accessible than it currently is in most of the world, but I also don’t think it should be in vending machines for the reasons I and the top commenter made.
Lmao at ‘in vending machines’ it’s not like it’s being given out like candy, what world do you think we live in?
it’s not like they take puberty blockers their entire lives, either. The point would be to give time.
I genuinely didn’t read beyond this because it’s so disgustingly close to anti-trans rhetoric. However, I will operate under the assumption that was not your intent.
Anecdotally, I have never met a single person who thought they went “too far” and most are in the same boat I am, wanting more but unable to do anything due to prohibitive costs. That’s not “severe body altering” stuff it’s literally just estrogen. I am spending about 50% of my pay just so get the bare minimum. Most of the trans people I know who aren’t able to get anything else done are men trying to get top surgery.
Non-anecdotally, the only studies I’ve ever seen (which an argument could be made I don’t see these because I’m not looking) are studies showing the exact opposite- the overwhelming majority are satisfied with the progression of their transition, or wish to do more, with less than 1% of trans people having regrets.
I did admit that the proportion of people with regrets is significantly lower than those who are satisfied. I also don’t want to make anything more restrictive than it currently is, as there is a very real crisis in the US among trans people and their access to adequate compassionate care.
I apologize for having echoed sentiments that I am decidedly against personally and which are upsetting to the community at large. This is something in which I am truly supportive of the individual and their choice, but playing with body chemistry in any way is absolutely taking risks. From benadryl to testosterone and progesterone, they all come with risks and side effects.
I will also admit I don’t look for any studies on this topic as it largely doesn’t have any effect on me, so I am certain my data is skewed somewhat from reality. However even still as a person who genuinely believes people should be free to live comfortably and happily, the medically inclined part of me does balk somewhat at altering the body chemistry of any developing human; puberty sucks for basically everyone. I agree that growing bits you feel genuinely truly absolutely and in all ways do not belong to you adds an extra layer of suck on top of an already sucky time, and transitioning thereafter is a more arduous process because of that. However, messing with the actual development of the growing body is what worries me for literally any human and their continued well-being - and I couldn’t give any shits about what you’ve got in your pants or what you wish it was. Health and happiness are what I wish for all, and a fully functional body that doesn’t require constant maintenance forever after because of a decision made in your youth that could just as easily have been put off two or three more years for a better outcome is part of that wish.
This reply turned out longer than I anticipated, but I hope it is understood I truly meant no ill will.
I assumed that from the start, most people truly are just ignorant on the subject and only hear the loudest voices, which sadly in this case tends to be conservatives.