What in the mental gymnastics is your comment meant to be?
Your edit comes across as, “Oops, looks like I was trying to rage against someone without realizing we agree; better edit to add a subtle retraction. Oh, and I’d better add a whataboutism out of nowhere too.”
It’s a bit of that… Arguing on the internet is just easy to fall into so sorry if you feel hard done by in my figuring out we’re agreeing.
I’m also spread a bit thin because I’ve put a lot of comments out under this post, as I have strong opinions on being anti-tankie and anti-communist under American Capitalist Fascism/Trumpism.
But you do understand it makes you and yours look ridiculous - and is thus counterproductive - when you can’t help yourself (due to your stated strong opinions) but to participate in such bad faith, right?
Between that and the suspicion I have that you were implying the massacres would be more acceptable if they weren’t pro-communist protestors and it’s just one more anecdote of tankies having bizarre and unconscionable stances.
Yeah I agree with the idea of a more democratic communist country. But meme is about how tankies suck chinese and Russian assholes with blind adherence.
Yes, and I doubt American Communism would be that way.
It’s often overlooked that Communism isn’t a singlular unbending set of rules or type of government - every single instance of Communism has come with its own modifications and differences.
I imagine American Communism (which is extraordinarily unlikely to ever come about) would involve Free Speech, the right to bear arms, and Religious freedoms.
Ideally it would retain a multi-party system, and be open to being voted out (with a smooth transition of government garanteed).
It would have totally new and American qualities to it - for better and for worse. That’s what history has shown to occur. Each Communism has been different. Vietnamese Communism isn’t like Chinese Communism isn’t like Russian Communism, and frankly the new versions tend to be better.
Not sure if you were being sarcastic, but I think communist societies do have thier own conceptions of democracy… It’s very complicated though (from what I can tell).
Having lived under Capitalism my whole life, I feel under cooked on this myself. I couldn’t tell you much other than I know the Chinese have the five year Plenary session, opposition parties within the communism party, and systems of local provential governments that compete on resolving social problems.
Vietnam has a shit load of unions.
So there’s mass participation in these systems… Maybe that’s part of why they’re still around. Idk… I have to plead ignorance on the topic.
To be fair parties themselves aren’t monoliths. I like Hu jintao’s politics a lot more than I like Xi pings. Factionalist abound. But as far I’ve seen with any communist state, they’ve always banned other parties defacto or dejure and they usually did that in the initial years of the state.
USSR, PRC, PRV, DPRK.
Having multiple parties allows for two important things: accountability and representation. Despite me disagreeing with someone’s politics I’d still want them to have some sort of representation. But it’s accountability that matters more to me.
The aforementioned governments do have accountability in whether the keys of power and people support them or not. But it’s a far less direct form than in an actual democracy and usually very proportionally disbalanced in the favor of the keys (ministers, army, or corporations).
Unions are good, but not enough in my opinion. But this is from my own rudimentary understanding of how it.
Yeah, governments and democratic structures are a little over my head. I think ultimately it’s a question of participation, belonging, and empowerment.
But I have no idea how to design a system that guarantees those things… And the education system has enough trouble getting people to understand democracy, let alone going beyond that.
I’m very confused on whether the keys to power system comes from the representative part of it being a representative democracy (single representatives needing key allies along the way), or whether it comes from the Capitalist self-interested parts, money in government, or whether it should be formalized into the system… Or whether eradicating it via looking at a direct participatory government run by a rotation of volunteers anyone could join would be better… Or some sort of block chain encrypted system… It all gets complicated pretty quick.
Not to mention it’s really NOT up for discussion/change at the best of times. So it seems we’re just locked into this slow moving system until it breaks down too much, and the cracks are showing as corporations get bigger and bigger.
Oh well, maybe someone will release a meaningful patch soon.
Not to mention it’s really NOT up for discussion/change at the best of times. So it seems we’re just locked into this slow moving system until it breaks down too much, and the cracks are showing as corporations get bigger and bigger.
I wish people smarter than me would have an answer to this. At times I just want to hide in a hole and forget the world exists.
Oh well, maybe someone will release a meaningful patch soon.
That’s an important thing to educate others on, but… so?
The problem is they massacred protestors, not what the protest was about.
If the people want to speak in support of communism, let them. If they want to speak in support of capitalism, let them.
Okay so they were protesting to get Free Speech, and to keep China communist.
You’re saying what they were protesting for (Free Speech and Communism) isn’t important…
…only Free Speech (one of the things they were protesting for) is important… Not Free Speech (one of the things they were protesting for).
A bit of anti-communist blindness is happening here. It’s really okay for Chinese communists to want a more democratic Communism.
[EDIT: On that much we are agreeing. I’m just also adding US pro-Capitalist massacres on too.]
What in the mental gymnastics is your comment meant to be?
Your edit comes across as, “Oops, looks like I was trying to rage against someone without realizing we agree; better edit to add a subtle retraction. Oh, and I’d better add a whataboutism out of nowhere too.”
It’s a bit of that… Arguing on the internet is just easy to fall into so sorry if you feel hard done by in my figuring out we’re agreeing.
I’m also spread a bit thin because I’ve put a lot of comments out under this post, as I have strong opinions on being anti-tankie and anti-communist under American Capitalist Fascism/Trumpism.
But you do understand it makes you and yours look ridiculous - and is thus counterproductive - when you can’t help yourself (due to your stated strong opinions) but to participate in such bad faith, right?
Between that and the suspicion I have that you were implying the massacres would be more acceptable if they weren’t pro-communist protestors and it’s just one more anecdote of tankies having bizarre and unconscionable stances.
Okay - I’m not a tankie. I’m not even a communist, and no I wasn’t saying that.
Your assumptions are your own.
Fair enough, but you do see that you’ve quacked like a duck here, right?
Especially in the context of a post that’s bound to draw tankies to run to the defense of fellow tankies, as you can see elsewhere in the comments.
I could say the same about you quacking like a Capitalist and fascist… But one of us has better social diplomacy skills.
Okay, you can go lick boot and stop bothering me now.
Not that I expect a good faith reply from you, but mostly just to signal to anyone reading that I’m unwilling to return the disrespect you started:
What exactly have I said that’s capitalist or fascist?
Yeah I agree with the idea of a more democratic communist country. But meme is about how tankies suck chinese and Russian assholes with blind adherence.
Yes, and I doubt American Communism would be that way.
It’s often overlooked that Communism isn’t a singlular unbending set of rules or type of government - every single instance of Communism has come with its own modifications and differences.
I imagine American Communism (which is extraordinarily unlikely to ever come about) would involve Free Speech, the right to bear arms, and Religious freedoms.
Ideally it would retain a multi-party system, and be open to being voted out (with a smooth transition of government garanteed).
It would have totally new and American qualities to it - for better and for worse. That’s what history has shown to occur. Each Communism has been different. Vietnamese Communism isn’t like Chinese Communism isn’t like Russian Communism, and frankly the new versions tend to be better.
It seems like such an important and obvious forethought. I can’t imagine how any of these communist countries missed on that.
I keep thinking back to animal farm. The temptation of power must be very intoxicating.
Communism with American characteristics.
Not sure if you were being sarcastic, but I think communist societies do have thier own conceptions of democracy… It’s very complicated though (from what I can tell).
Having lived under Capitalism my whole life, I feel under cooked on this myself. I couldn’t tell you much other than I know the Chinese have the five year Plenary session, opposition parties within the communism party, and systems of local provential governments that compete on resolving social problems.
Vietnam has a shit load of unions.
So there’s mass participation in these systems… Maybe that’s part of why they’re still around. Idk… I have to plead ignorance on the topic.
To be fair parties themselves aren’t monoliths. I like Hu jintao’s politics a lot more than I like Xi pings. Factionalist abound. But as far I’ve seen with any communist state, they’ve always banned other parties defacto or dejure and they usually did that in the initial years of the state.
USSR, PRC, PRV, DPRK.
Having multiple parties allows for two important things: accountability and representation. Despite me disagreeing with someone’s politics I’d still want them to have some sort of representation. But it’s accountability that matters more to me.
The aforementioned governments do have accountability in whether the keys of power and people support them or not. But it’s a far less direct form than in an actual democracy and usually very proportionally disbalanced in the favor of the keys (ministers, army, or corporations).
Unions are good, but not enough in my opinion. But this is from my own rudimentary understanding of how it.
Yeah, governments and democratic structures are a little over my head. I think ultimately it’s a question of participation, belonging, and empowerment.
But I have no idea how to design a system that guarantees those things… And the education system has enough trouble getting people to understand democracy, let alone going beyond that.
I’m very confused on whether the keys to power system comes from the representative part of it being a representative democracy (single representatives needing key allies along the way), or whether it comes from the Capitalist self-interested parts, money in government, or whether it should be formalized into the system… Or whether eradicating it via looking at a direct participatory government run by a rotation of volunteers anyone could join would be better… Or some sort of block chain encrypted system… It all gets complicated pretty quick.
Not to mention it’s really NOT up for discussion/change at the best of times. So it seems we’re just locked into this slow moving system until it breaks down too much, and the cracks are showing as corporations get bigger and bigger.
Oh well, maybe someone will release a meaningful patch soon.
I wish people smarter than me would have an answer to this. At times I just want to hide in a hole and forget the world exists.
Amen.