Let’s agree to disagree. We clearly have very different ideas on human nature and I don’t think either of us is an adequately educated physiological professional to hold a sensicle disscusion on the topic
we can agree that if you do these things, you are an evil person, or we don’t agree at all. I don’t really give a shit about what sort of justifications you wanna come up with, that’s just rape and torture apologia and if you do that, then you’re a bad fucking person too.
We do agree that one shouldn’t kill or rape people, however were we disagree is that you think that someone can’t do something without finding it wrong if they had an objektive look at the facts. Do you think someone shooting a dog that is attack ing their child is a evil person? Do you think the majority of people couldn’t be convinced that a certain group of people is subhuman, more similar to an animal perhaps, not be treated as a human? Do you not think that the majority of couldn’t be made believe that these subhumans are attacking your country men, practically your family?
To name a more harmless example: most people will continue to buy products even they know they are partially being manufactured by slaves, even if they know that the production conditions of these products cause many deaths, even though this isn’t a life or death situation for them.
Your idealism is honorable, however I think you expect to much from humanity
Do you think someone shooting a dog that is attack ing their child is a evil person?
how is that remotely on par with a war crime?
Do you not think that the majority of couldn’t be made believe that these subhumans are attacking your country men, practically your family?
pity you weren’t born several decades ago, I think your life’s calling would have been defending the nazis at Nuremburg. that’s the same argument they used to try to absolve themselves of personal responsibility for their war crimes.
It’s not, that’s the point. People are made believe that they are equivalent
pity you weren’t born several decades ago, I think your life’s calling would have been defending the nazis at Nuremburg. that’s the same argument they used to try to absolve themselves of personal responsibility for their war crimes.
The crimes the nazis committed are on a bit of different level than those committed by Russian soldiers, so please don’t relativize them.
To follow along with the point, I have on multiple occasions heard the sentenment expressed, most recently in a well known podcast(I can look for it if you want to), that World War II soldiers that killed German civilians aren’t that bad because the Germans were nazis. Ukraine government/military/parts of the population being nazis is common in Russian propaganda. Don’t you think those people could be convinced that it’s okay to kill Ukrainian civilians?
Don’t you think those people could be convinced that it’s okay to kill Ukrainian civilians?
does them believing that absolve them of war crimes? that’s the crux of my argument, and international courts have ruled time and time again that no, being brainwashed by propaganda does not absolve you of guilt for war crimes.
Netanyahu thinks Palestinians are subhuman, and has convinced the nation of Israel of the same. does that excuse the IDF soliders for raping Palestinian prisoners? yes or no, please, I want you to answer that.
Many of the international courts do like to overlook war crimes committed by the “good guys”, also legality≠morality
In general I think there has been a miscommunication. Do I think that people committing war crimes, under any whatever circumstance, have done nothing wrong? No. But if you look at the laws, there are circumstances were a crime is viewed specially. For example were I live if you get drunk and kill someone you will not be punished for murder, but for not being able to now your limits with alcohol. Or if someone puts a gun to your head and tells you to kill someone you will not be considered guilty in the way a murderer would.
To get to the IDF soldiers, no I don’t think the propaganda excuses rape, they have done something wrong. However I don’t think they are inherently evil people that deserve to die or should be permanently excluded from society. I don’t think there lives should be considered expendable or worth less
In general I think there has been a miscommunication.
I’m assuming so, because that’s the argument I’m making. being a victim of propaganda doesn’t absolve you of guilt for violent acts. you have to choose to do that. nobody is holding a gun to the heads of the IDF soldiers and telling them to rape prisoners. they chose to do that without urging. did the propaganda make them decide the people they were hurting were subhuman? yeah, maybe. but a normal person doesn’t go around raping and torturing animals, either. the kind of person who does things like this is someone who has something broken inside them. the propaganda is just a convenient excuse for them.
does every person have the capacity for evil acts in them? absolutely. but some people have a greater capacity than others, and they were born that way. they’re all around us, living among us, a part of every group and nation. just waiting for an excuse to do truly horrible things to other humans.
And it this point we’re back to what I said, neither of us is a psychology expert that can on a scientifical level make claims about if people are born in a way, or raised or whatever, that’s why this is mostly pointless.
Let’s agree to disagree. We clearly have very different ideas on human nature and I don’t think either of us is an adequately educated physiological professional to hold a sensicle disscusion on the topic
we can agree that if you do these things, you are an evil person, or we don’t agree at all. I don’t really give a shit about what sort of justifications you wanna come up with, that’s just rape and torture apologia and if you do that, then you’re a bad fucking person too.
We do agree that one shouldn’t kill or rape people, however were we disagree is that you think that someone can’t do something without finding it wrong if they had an objektive look at the facts. Do you think someone shooting a dog that is attack ing their child is a evil person? Do you think the majority of people couldn’t be convinced that a certain group of people is subhuman, more similar to an animal perhaps, not be treated as a human? Do you not think that the majority of couldn’t be made believe that these subhumans are attacking your country men, practically your family?
To name a more harmless example: most people will continue to buy products even they know they are partially being manufactured by slaves, even if they know that the production conditions of these products cause many deaths, even though this isn’t a life or death situation for them.
Your idealism is honorable, however I think you expect to much from humanity
how is that remotely on par with a war crime?
pity you weren’t born several decades ago, I think your life’s calling would have been defending the nazis at Nuremburg. that’s the same argument they used to try to absolve themselves of personal responsibility for their war crimes.
It’s not, that’s the point. People are made believe that they are equivalent
The crimes the nazis committed are on a bit of different level than those committed by Russian soldiers, so please don’t relativize them.
To follow along with the point, I have on multiple occasions heard the sentenment expressed, most recently in a well known podcast(I can look for it if you want to), that World War II soldiers that killed German civilians aren’t that bad because the Germans were nazis. Ukraine government/military/parts of the population being nazis is common in Russian propaganda. Don’t you think those people could be convinced that it’s okay to kill Ukrainian civilians?
does them believing that absolve them of war crimes? that’s the crux of my argument, and international courts have ruled time and time again that no, being brainwashed by propaganda does not absolve you of guilt for war crimes.
Netanyahu thinks Palestinians are subhuman, and has convinced the nation of Israel of the same. does that excuse the IDF soliders for raping Palestinian prisoners? yes or no, please, I want you to answer that.
Many of the international courts do like to overlook war crimes committed by the “good guys”, also legality≠morality
In general I think there has been a miscommunication. Do I think that people committing war crimes, under any whatever circumstance, have done nothing wrong? No. But if you look at the laws, there are circumstances were a crime is viewed specially. For example were I live if you get drunk and kill someone you will not be punished for murder, but for not being able to now your limits with alcohol. Or if someone puts a gun to your head and tells you to kill someone you will not be considered guilty in the way a murderer would.
To get to the IDF soldiers, no I don’t think the propaganda excuses rape, they have done something wrong. However I don’t think they are inherently evil people that deserve to die or should be permanently excluded from society. I don’t think there lives should be considered expendable or worth less
I’m assuming so, because that’s the argument I’m making. being a victim of propaganda doesn’t absolve you of guilt for violent acts. you have to choose to do that. nobody is holding a gun to the heads of the IDF soldiers and telling them to rape prisoners. they chose to do that without urging. did the propaganda make them decide the people they were hurting were subhuman? yeah, maybe. but a normal person doesn’t go around raping and torturing animals, either. the kind of person who does things like this is someone who has something broken inside them. the propaganda is just a convenient excuse for them.
does every person have the capacity for evil acts in them? absolutely. but some people have a greater capacity than others, and they were born that way. they’re all around us, living among us, a part of every group and nation. just waiting for an excuse to do truly horrible things to other humans.
And it this point we’re back to what I said, neither of us is a psychology expert that can on a scientifical level make claims about if people are born in a way, or raised or whatever, that’s why this is mostly pointless.