I don’t know what you want to call this instinct, mating or reproduction, whatever. And just because it’s an instinct doesn’t mean everyone needs to have it, no.
It’s a strong urge for me to have children and love them. I would have more if I thought we had room and could afford it, but see? I’m resisting that because of circumstances. I don’t know what you want me to say other than that.
Like I said, I don’t think I can explain this to you. We are at an impasse.
Obviously I’m going to give my all to make my kids suffer as little as possible, just like almost every other animal. 🤷♂️ That’s what we parents all do, those of us with our heads on straight.
Like I said, we are not agreeing here and this is exhausting like I knew it would be. Let’s just agree to disagree. It’s probably best here. You’re not reaching out to me with this, I’ve heard it before and I agree to some extent, but I can’t help what I feel. And I can’t explain this to you.
I could’ve decided I wouldn’t have kids, but it would go against my feelings, and it would probably make me incompatible with the love of my life.
We have good circumstances. We live in a country that still has somewhat real democracy in our constitution. If anything, we’ll deal with food shortages and maybe war. We’re already dealing with dairy and meat shortages and we are eating alternatives yet living good. But perhaps our far descendants won’t have to deal with hardship. 🙂
I know you don’t believe in hope, but this is my attempt to spread some. Maybe it doesn’t work on someone who lives where you do or who’ve been shaped by life as you have, I don’t know your situation. If so, I’m sorry. We’re just different, and that’s okay.
I’m not arguing against having children and I’m not saying you’re a bad person. But logically, saying “I can’t help what I feel” is not a valid reason to inflict suffering onto other people in any context.
Similarly, I don’t want to fucking be alive anymore, but suicide is the action deemed “selfish”. But not the action of my parents to bring me into the world.
I’m not saying you in particular, but yes, fuck society, reproduction is selfish and cruel, and just because you feel the way you do doesn’t make it any less so.
I’m sorry for your children who may have to grow up in a doomed world. I hope they don’t. And I hope they don’t regret YOUR decision to give them life.
I feel like this is driving a lot of your feelings in this matter, and I do want to be alive, so I cannot relate to your position, I think.
Some of us feel that being alive through hardship is worth it as long as we have each other to love and cherish. But of course, if those types of relationships are missing, or the hardship is too intense, it can be overpowering.
I hope you some day feel like you want to be alive. ❤️
Relating to my position is irrelevant. The core logic remains the same.
You may not think it, but the logical conclusion of your position is either
a.) it is okay to inflict suffering because I feel like it
Or
b.) I am not directly responsible for inflicting any suffering that my offspring goes through.
Or
c.) The quality of life I can provide for them supersedes/makes up for that suffering.
A is strictly wrong, B is wrong by my standards, and C is entirely subjective and is ultimately a question that you don’t really know the answer to and you just feel that way. See A.
But yes thank you I do not hope for any undue suffering in anyone’s life and I do not think that having children makes you due to suffer. But it is undoubtedly a selfish act in my book.
The chance that my kids will suffer extraordinarily is small. And yes, it is a gamble, fair enough. People still do things even though there’s risk, because of the possibilities and weighted risk.
We all suffer in one way or another. Me too. But that is life. Life is suffering. Without suffering, there wouldn’t be joy. And the balance here is important.
You are clearly suffering a lot.
I am suffering very little.
We do not have the same world view because of this. 🤷♂️ I don’t think this conversation will do either of us any good.
I don’t know what you want to call this instinct, mating or reproduction, whatever. And just because it’s an instinct doesn’t mean everyone needs to have it, no.
It’s a strong urge for me to have children and love them. I would have more if I thought we had room and could afford it, but see? I’m resisting that because of circumstances. I don’t know what you want me to say other than that.
Like I said, I don’t think I can explain this to you. We are at an impasse.
Obviously I’m going to give my all to make my kids suffer as little as possible, just like almost every other animal. 🤷♂️ That’s what we parents all do, those of us with our heads on straight.
Like I said, we are not agreeing here and this is exhausting like I knew it would be. Let’s just agree to disagree. It’s probably best here. You’re not reaching out to me with this, I’ve heard it before and I agree to some extent, but I can’t help what I feel. And I can’t explain this to you.
I could’ve decided I wouldn’t have kids, but it would go against my feelings, and it would probably make me incompatible with the love of my life.
We have good circumstances. We live in a country that still has somewhat real democracy in our constitution. If anything, we’ll deal with food shortages and maybe war. We’re already dealing with dairy and meat shortages and we are eating alternatives yet living good. But perhaps our far descendants won’t have to deal with hardship. 🙂
I know you don’t believe in hope, but this is my attempt to spread some. Maybe it doesn’t work on someone who lives where you do or who’ve been shaped by life as you have, I don’t know your situation. If so, I’m sorry. We’re just different, and that’s okay.
Sending love.
I’m not arguing against having children and I’m not saying you’re a bad person. But logically, saying “I can’t help what I feel” is not a valid reason to inflict suffering onto other people in any context.
Similarly, I don’t want to fucking be alive anymore, but suicide is the action deemed “selfish”. But not the action of my parents to bring me into the world.
I’m not saying you in particular, but yes, fuck society, reproduction is selfish and cruel, and just because you feel the way you do doesn’t make it any less so.
I’m sorry for your children who may have to grow up in a doomed world. I hope they don’t. And I hope they don’t regret YOUR decision to give them life.
Alright.
I feel like this is driving a lot of your feelings in this matter, and I do want to be alive, so I cannot relate to your position, I think.
Some of us feel that being alive through hardship is worth it as long as we have each other to love and cherish. But of course, if those types of relationships are missing, or the hardship is too intense, it can be overpowering.
I hope you some day feel like you want to be alive. ❤️
Relating to my position is irrelevant. The core logic remains the same.
You may not think it, but the logical conclusion of your position is either
a.) it is okay to inflict suffering because I feel like it
Or
b.) I am not directly responsible for inflicting any suffering that my offspring goes through.
Or
c.) The quality of life I can provide for them supersedes/makes up for that suffering.
A is strictly wrong, B is wrong by my standards, and C is entirely subjective and is ultimately a question that you don’t really know the answer to and you just feel that way. See A.
But yes thank you I do not hope for any undue suffering in anyone’s life and I do not think that having children makes you due to suffer. But it is undoubtedly a selfish act in my book.
Alright. We disagree on b) and c).
The chance that my kids will suffer extraordinarily is small. And yes, it is a gamble, fair enough. People still do things even though there’s risk, because of the possibilities and weighted risk.
We all suffer in one way or another. Me too. But that is life. Life is suffering. Without suffering, there wouldn’t be joy. And the balance here is important.
You are clearly suffering a lot.
I am suffering very little.
We do not have the same world view because of this. 🤷♂️ I don’t think this conversation will do either of us any good.
The chance that your kids will suffer extraordinarily is… extremely high, actually. Are you a climate science denier?
I’m not. Have a nice day.
You as well!