if i make a game, its gonna be open source. Modders can charge for their mods all they want, as long as they are open source. Earn the fruits of your labor, modding queens and kings, AGPL ftw. Just like elementary os can charge for its binaries, they earn that right
If it only were the horse armour. Iirc they sell mods that are already available on nexusmods, made by 3rd party creators and keep a percentage of that money because they “offered the service for mod distribution”.
I thought that was for console porting and in-game shop recognition? It’s not like Bethesda is forcing the mod creators to reupload them onto the paid garden, and if it makes the mod-maker some money I don’t see any problems with it.
Team Fortress was a mod. Counterstrike was a mod. DotA was a mod. Really depends on what they can do with dedicated effort rather than just simply a passion project.
VR mods, they aren’t really worth it IMO, I even resent the game devs who charge for separate VR releases that they usually don’t even end up maintaining across different VR hardware. IMO the problem with VR is that people try to do too much with it and try to Wii-ficy the experience, and this is at the hardware level given how usually you can’t even use your keyboard and mouse, having to resort to the VR controllers they came with for a much slower and less fluid experience.
Yeah, and these mods were so good that they became their own games.
If you want to do that, you’re a game developer. So license (or develop) an engine, and also pay for all the non-permissively licensed other code you use.
Congratulations, you’re now on a solid base for charging money for your game.
So in other words, “Mods must forever remain a passion” is false, which was the point I was addressing. But it doesn’t even have to be a game, like say, Virtual Desktop, Wallpaper Engine, 3D Mark, etc.
edit: I go on to describe what the developer was actually doing, apparently, so it would not have gone “very differently” as I suggested. Welp, it is CD Projekt RED. They talk the talk, but the devil is in the details with them [See Devotion].
If this developer had released a software tool named, say, VRossify, and it was released as a VR launcher that offered VR for multiple games that didn’t have it, the discussion could be very different. He could sell this and provide the plugins that mod support for each particular game freely. Instead, he released them as paid mods for what the developers are likely also considering, a dedicated VR release. He tied himself to one particular IP each time while trying to monetize it, and that’s basically a sure way to guarantee a loss if it ever got to trial. Ain’t no host that’s going to ignore a DMCA notice in such a clear cut case of IP violation IMO. He’d have to make it clear that it is providing its own platform and not just use it as a excuse to profit off of notable game releases. He could do things like focus on Unreal Engine games, which would net him a good amount of support for games that could benefit from VR.
At the end of the day, though, it’s up to each developer, and he might have to remove games on request from the support of said software tool. Then it might be up to a third party to provide a plugin for said platform, or just replace it entirely if its too basic. At this point,~~ given his attitude I assume he has burned bridges with CD Projekt RED~~ (these are the guys who after Devotion have not allowed future Red Candle Games on GOG even when they’ve notably been on Steam, EGS, and Humble Bundle), but if he had had foresight to present it that way first, it might not have gone the way it has(edit: Na, they decided to be assholes anyway. Guess there wasn’t enough horse bestiality in the mod.)
What if there is so much passion that the mod author works 100+ hours a week on the mod. And the mod he makes is so awesome that people have no issue paying him to do that job. Honestly if every mod was this level of skill and effort, paid mods would make sense to more people. When you think of mods, “passion project” mods may be what comes to mind, that is not what this mod suite is.
This is 35 completely transformed and improved games, better than any other VR games on the market, fully supported in perpetuity, for 10 dollars. With everything he brings to these games, it’s like if 20 mod authors got together and made 20 perfectly interleaved mods that all work perfectly with each other. You don’t find this anywhere else. This isn’t a “mod”, this is unprecedented.
And while the mod is behind the paywall, most of us don’t think of it as paying for the mod, we are paying part of his wage for a day. Many of us just keep an active monthly subscription, but that isn’t necessary for people that just want the mod suite. You can just buy one month if you only want to play one game real quick, or any game that it currently supports. You would only need to update it if either the game updates and that update breaks the game (though you always have the choice of reverting and pausing updates for the game instead) or if he adds a new game that you want to play in VR.
It’s understandable not to like that it costs money, but it is very much the only option.
I agree with you, especially since allegedly this mod doesn’t contain copyrighted materials from the games. Compared to a source engine mod where your code is based on their SDK which is licensed to you under non commercial, I think it’s fair game here.
However I read that the VR mod in question was not in perpetuity and you had to be subscribed to download updates, which tarnishes a bit your point. But continued support may very well be worth a couple money every few months.
Yeah, the main issue is the mods are for a niche of a niche of a niche. Not just the niche of VR, but the further niche of PCVR, and within that, the further niche of people who don’t or no longer get sick from stick-based movement in VR. Each of which cuts the audience about ten-fold.
And then for that tiny audience, he is making what is basically perfect VR mods. Like we couldn’t imagine anyway they could possibly get better, until he figures out a new feature he can add, and then slowly back port to every previous game that can support it.
I very much am a continuous patron of him. For people that just want the mod once for one game, they generally don’t need to pay more than once. And technically when they do, they actually get ~35 games they could also choose to play. But it’s worth more than 10 dollars even for 1 game.
It is a non-standard pricing model, but it is more than fair.
He works his ass off, almost every hour of every day. This is the only pricing model that works for a situation like this.
Good. Mods must forever remain a passion project and not something incentivized by money.
I dream of a world where people can follow their passion without having to worry about where their next meal will come from.
if i make a game, its gonna be open source. Modders can charge for their mods all they want, as long as they are open source. Earn the fruits of your labor, modding queens and kings, AGPL ftw. Just like elementary os can charge for its binaries, they earn that right
Tell that to Bethesda.
But my horse armor though.
If it only were the horse armour. Iirc they sell mods that are already available on nexusmods, made by 3rd party creators and keep a percentage of that money because they “offered the service for mod distribution”.
I thought that was for console porting and in-game shop recognition? It’s not like Bethesda is forcing the mod creators to reupload them onto the paid garden, and if it makes the mod-maker some money I don’t see any problems with it.
Team Fortress was a mod. Counterstrike was a mod. DotA was a mod. Really depends on what they can do with dedicated effort rather than just simply a passion project.
VR mods, they aren’t really worth it IMO, I even resent the game devs who charge for separate VR releases that they usually don’t even end up maintaining across different VR hardware. IMO the problem with VR is that people try to do too much with it and try to Wii-ficy the experience, and this is at the hardware level given how usually you can’t even use your keyboard and mouse, having to resort to the VR controllers they came with for a much slower and less fluid experience.
Yeah, and these mods were so good that they became their own games.
If you want to do that, you’re a game developer. So license (or develop) an engine, and also pay for all the non-permissively licensed other code you use.
Congratulations, you’re now on a solid base for charging money for your game.
So in other words, “Mods must forever remain a passion” is false, which was the point I was addressing. But it doesn’t even have to be a game, like say, Virtual Desktop, Wallpaper Engine, 3D Mark, etc.
edit: I go on to describe what the developer was actually doing, apparently, so it would not have gone “very differently” as I suggested. Welp, it is CD Projekt RED. They talk the talk, but the devil is in the details with them [See Devotion].
If this developer had released a software tool named, say, VRossify, and it was released as a VR launcher that offered VR for multiple games that didn’t have it, the discussion could be very different. He could sell this and provide the plugins that mod support for each particular game freely. Instead, he released them as paid mods for what the developers are likely also considering, a dedicated VR release.
He tied himself to one particular IP each time while trying to monetize it, and that’s basically a sure way to guarantee a loss if it ever got to trial. Ain’t no host that’s going to ignore a DMCA notice in such a clear cut case of IP violation IMO.He’d have to make it clear that it is providing its own platform and not just use it as a excuse to profit off of notable game releases. He could do things like focus on Unreal Engine games, which would net him a good amount of support for games that could benefit from VR.At the end of the day, though, it’s up to each developer, and he might have to remove games on request from the support of said software tool. Then it might be up to a third party to provide a plugin for said platform, or just replace it entirely if its too basic. At this point,~~ given his attitude I assume he has burned bridges with CD Projekt RED~~ (these are the guys who after Devotion have not allowed future Red Candle Games on GOG even when they’ve notably been on Steam, EGS, and Humble Bundle),
but if he had had foresight to present it that way first, it might not have gone the way it has(edit: Na, they decided to be assholes anyway. Guess there wasn’t enough horse bestiality in the mod.)What if there is so much passion that the mod author works 100+ hours a week on the mod. And the mod he makes is so awesome that people have no issue paying him to do that job. Honestly if every mod was this level of skill and effort, paid mods would make sense to more people. When you think of mods, “passion project” mods may be what comes to mind, that is not what this mod suite is.
This is 35 completely transformed and improved games, better than any other VR games on the market, fully supported in perpetuity, for 10 dollars. With everything he brings to these games, it’s like if 20 mod authors got together and made 20 perfectly interleaved mods that all work perfectly with each other. You don’t find this anywhere else. This isn’t a “mod”, this is unprecedented.
And while the mod is behind the paywall, most of us don’t think of it as paying for the mod, we are paying part of his wage for a day. Many of us just keep an active monthly subscription, but that isn’t necessary for people that just want the mod suite. You can just buy one month if you only want to play one game real quick, or any game that it currently supports. You would only need to update it if either the game updates and that update breaks the game (though you always have the choice of reverting and pausing updates for the game instead) or if he adds a new game that you want to play in VR.
It’s understandable not to like that it costs money, but it is very much the only option.
I agree with you, especially since allegedly this mod doesn’t contain copyrighted materials from the games. Compared to a source engine mod where your code is based on their SDK which is licensed to you under non commercial, I think it’s fair game here.
However I read that the VR mod in question was not in perpetuity and you had to be subscribed to download updates, which tarnishes a bit your point. But continued support may very well be worth a couple money every few months.
Yeah, the main issue is the mods are for a niche of a niche of a niche. Not just the niche of VR, but the further niche of PCVR, and within that, the further niche of people who don’t or no longer get sick from stick-based movement in VR. Each of which cuts the audience about ten-fold.
And then for that tiny audience, he is making what is basically perfect VR mods. Like we couldn’t imagine anyway they could possibly get better, until he figures out a new feature he can add, and then slowly back port to every previous game that can support it.
I very much am a continuous patron of him. For people that just want the mod once for one game, they generally don’t need to pay more than once. And technically when they do, they actually get ~35 games they could also choose to play. But it’s worth more than 10 dollars even for 1 game.
It is a non-standard pricing model, but it is more than fair.
He works his ass off, almost every hour of every day. This is the only pricing model that works for a situation like this.