Translation:

Mom, the abyss is staring into me!

He started!

You often just want to go with what’s popular, since hardware vendors will only provide APIs for select languages.

Well, and depending on the field, you may need to get certifications for your toolchain and such, so then you have to use what’s popular.

In my corner of the embedded world, it feels like everyone is practically jumping to integrate Rust. In the sense that vendors which haven’t had to innovate for 10+ years will suddenly publish a Rust API out of the blue. And I’m saying “out of the blue”, but I do also regularly hear from other devs, that they’ve been pestering the vendors to provide a Rust API or even started writing own wrappers for their C APIs.

And while it’s certainly a factor that Rust is good, in my experience they generally just want to get away from C. Even our management is well aware that C is a liability.

I guess, I should add that while I say “jumping”, this is the embedded world where everything moves extremely slowly, so we’re talking about a multi-year jump. In our field, you need to get certifications for your toolchain and code quality, for example, so lots of work is necessary to formalize all of that.

Yeah, particularly the broadcasting really irks me.
That is an opinion you can hold for yourself and then make compromises as you encounter reality. I do expect programmers to hold strong opinions.

But when you broadcast it, you strip yourself of the option to make compromises. You’re just saying something which is going to be wrong in one way or another in most situations. I do expect programmers to be smarter than that.

I mean, for me, it’s also mostly a matter of us doing embedded(-adjacent) software dev. So far, my company would hardly ever choose one stack over another for performance/efficiency reasons. But yeah, maybe that is going to change in the future.

Large shared codebases never reflect a single design, but are always in some intermediate state between different software designs. How the codebase will hang together after an individual change is thus way more important than what ideal “north star” you’re driving towards.

Yeah, learned this the hard way. Came up with an architecture to strive for 1½ years ago. We shipped the last remaining refactorings two weeks ago. It has been a ride. Mostly a ride of perpetually being low-priority, because refactorings always are.

In retrospect, it would’ve likely been better to go for a half-assed architecture that requires less of a diff, while still enabling us to ship similar features. It’s not like the new architecture is a flawless fit either, after 1½ years of evolving requirements.

And ultimately, architecture needs to serve the team. What does not serve the team is 1½ years of architectural limbo.

Yeah, I don’t think there’s a concrete joke in this. Many comics are just a light chuckle as you flip through the newspaper…

I mean, don’t get me wrong, I also find startup time important, particularly with CLIs. But high memory usage slows down your application in other ways, too (not just other applications on the system). You will have more L1, L2 etc. cache misses. And the OS is more likely to page/swap out more of your memory onto the hard drive.

Of course, I don’t either sit in front of an application and can tell that it was a non-local NUMA memory access that caused a particular slowness, so I can understand not really being able to care for iterative improvements. But yeah, that is also why I quite like using an efficient stack outright. It just makes computers feel as fast as they should be, without me having to worry about it.

I don’t know what part of that is supposed to be an insult.

And the article may have talked of such stark differences, but I didn’t. I’m just saying that the resource usage is noticeably lower.

Yeah, you need to do tree-shaking with JavaScript to get rid of unused library code: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Glossary/Tree_shaking

I would expect larger corporate projects to do so. It is something that one needs to know about and configure, but if one senior webdev works on a project, they’ll set it up pretty quickly.

This isn’t Reddit. You don’t need to talk in absolutes.

Similar to WittyShizard, my experience is very different. Said Rust application uses 1200 dependencies and I think around 50 MB RAM. We had a Kotlin application beforehand, which used around 300 dependencies and 1 GB RAM, I believe. I would expect a JavaScript application of similar complexity to use a similar amount or more RAM.

And more efficient languages do have an effect on RAM usage, for example:

• Not using garbage collection means objects generally get cleared from RAM quicker.
• Iterating over substrings or list elements is likely to be implement more efficiently, for example Rust has string slices and explicit .iter() + .collect().
• People in the ecosystem will want to use the language for use-cases where efficiency is important and then help optimize libraries.
• You’ve even got stupid shit, for example in garbage-collected languages, it has traditionally been considered best practice, that if you’re doing async, you should use immutable data types and then always create a copy of them when you want to update them. That uses a ton of RAM for stupid reasons.

Yeah, gonna be interesting. Software companies working on consumer software often don’t need to care, because:

• They don’t need to buy the RAM that they’re filling up.
• They’re not the only culprit on your PC.
• Consumers don’t understand how RAM works nearly as well as they understand fuel.
• And even when consumers understand that an application is using too much, they may not be able to switch to an alternative either way, see for example the many chat applications written in Electron, none of which are interoperable.

I can see somewhat of a shift happening for software that companies develop for themselves, though. At $DAYJOB, we have an application written in Rust and you can practically see the dollar signs lighting up in the eyes of management when you tell them “just get the cheapest device to run it on” and “it’s hardly going to incur cloud hosting costs”.
Obviously this alone rarely leads to management deciding to rewrite an application/service in a more efficient language, but it certainly makes them more open to devs wanting to use these languages. Well, and who knows what happens, if the prices for Raspberry Pis and cloud hosting and such end up skyrocketing similarly.

The problem is that it sounds like a riddle. In a riddle, you’re traditionally supposed to work within the rules that you’ve been told. So, not thinking outside the box here is not an indication that the person isn’t capable of doing so.

Of course, if I encountered this problem in real life, I’d ask Carol from accounting to check the other room, while I flip the switches. But my instinctive answer was that it is not possible, because I assumed it to be a riddle and the provided rules did not allow a solution.

I mean, there is a reason why that is so pervasive. It makes you set up the dev environment and figure out how to run a program, which is a step that you cannot skip.

Of course, you should go for a slightly more complex project afterwards.

By “unit”, you probably mean a SystemD unit, right?

I’d guess, it’s a variation of this problem: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_color_theorem

To be fair, you can also somewhat steer whether it will take off as a dev, by how you promote it and how much time you take to make it easily usable by others. Many devs really don’t care to have their passion projects take off, because it means you’ll likely spend less time doing your passion thing, more time doing user support.

Hmm, interesting, thanks!

Yeah, I get called a tankie on the regular now, just because my user account is on .ml and I still don’t actually know what it’s supposed to mean. Apparently, I’m supposed to have political opinions on topics that I’m significantly more ignorant on than the people who call me that.

Yeah, but anyone willing to implement shaders for Luanti can just contribute it to the game itself. Then you wouldn’t need to do anything to get the support.