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Cake day: July 15th, 2023

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  • FuglyDuck@lemmy.worldtoComic Strips@lemmy.world•Absolutely not!
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    4 days ago

    And now let me ask you this…

    How much of the Bible is false? How much of it could be false for you to not worship the god described in it?

    To most christians, the whole point of the Old Testament is to point to, and explain the New Testament, right? When the OT says stuff happened, it doesn’t really matter that it didn’t actually happen. It matters that people believed it happened.

    After all, if you don’t believe in the fall of man, or that god picked a chosen people and gave them the first covenant, you can hardly believe the second one, can you?

    If you don’t believe god came and spoke through the prophets and promised the messiah, you can hardly believe Jesus is that promised Messiah.

    And to be clear the only historical record we have of Jesus is in the Christian Bible. And that Christian Bible says Jesus said he did not come to abolish the law of Moses, and that it is in force until the Earth passes away.

    It doesn’t matter if the exodus happened or not, the Torah does in fact exist. (And the Torah is the law he’s talking about.) and so, with Jesus explicitly saying that, he’s also tacitly condoning slavery and all the other awful shit in the Torah.

    If you are a Christian, then you worship a monster.

    The Christian god is incompatible with a god of the gaps. Afterall, a god of the gaps is not involved in human affairs where the Christian god most certainly is.


  • So, lemme ask you this.

    When the Bible says “Jesus said…” is it reasonably accurate?

    Cuz, let’s be honest here. You have nothing else that comes close to a record of what Jesus actually taught, so if you throw the bible out, you’re throwing out baby Jesus with it.

    (We don’t even have any record of his mere existence outside the Bible, not that we’d expect to.)

    Or do you expect us to believe you’re more reliable than Muhhamed, or Joseph Smith or any of the billions of people who believe in something else entirely?

    By the way, you know Jesus was one of those Fundies, right?




  • Jesus also said, “The law was made for the man, not the man for the law.”
    … <snip>
    You can always take verses out of context (both literary and historical) and make anything look horrible.

    First off, it’s amazing that you’re pulling out “CoNtExT” on me here while doing exactly that.

    23One Sabbath he was going through the grain fields, and as they made their way his disciples began to pluck heads of grain. 24The Pharisees said to him, “Look, why are they doing what is not lawful on the Sabbath?” 25And he said to them, “Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry and in need of food, 26how he entered the house of God when Abiathar was high priest and ate the bread of the Presence, which it is not lawful for any but the priests to eat, and he gave some to his companions?” 27Then he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for humankind and not humankind for the Sabbath, 28so the Son of Man is lord even of the Sabbath.”
    -Mark 2:23-28

    Now lets talk about that context.

    The first thing here is that they weren’t harvesting or gathering. Harvesting is an entire process. With grains, they would use sickles to cut the grasses, stack them into sheaves to let the grass dry out, then take the bundles to the thresher, removing the seeds of grain, and bringing the grains into storage to keep it away from critters and such.

    What is not prohibited is what the Disciples were doing. Plucking the heads of wheat and popping them into your mouth. That was not harvesting, except in the most pedantic and modern sense of the word.

    Furthermore, most of the Laws have the exceptions for the preservation of life. The Disciples were hungry. Some translate it as ‘starving’. And this is the argument Jesus is making here. That it was an act to preserve life, which is in fact permissible.

    And right after that, he says, “Unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.” … snip… ?You see, if you read the text thoughtfully and take its context into account, it says something quite different. It’s convoluted indeed, but that’s the literary style of the time. You can’t make strong assertions like that without studying the subject a minimum. You can’t read 2000 years old texts like they were written yesterday. Even in translation, they have to be decoded.

    Sorry. You were lecturing me on context?

    You should probably go study the basics. There are multiple legal codes being discussed in the passage. the author of Mark even explains this to you in a parenthetical aside, ya dingus. (Verse 3: “For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, do not eat unless they wash their hands, *thus observing the tradition of the elders,”).

    Jesus is advocating the written Law of Moses, as written in the Torah. Predominately, in Deuteronomy, but also in Exodus and Leviticus.

    The Pharisees were citing the Oral Law, also called the Tradition of the Elders. (they, being the Elders.) the Oral Law fixes a large number of the things that went wrong in the written law. Like, for example, they knew (long before Jesus came around) that around half of women don’t actually bleed the first time they have sex; and that using a bloody cloth as evidence of virginity (and the lack of a blood cloth justification for stoning new brides) is simply fucked in the head…

    Or that it’s normal for children to gripe about their parents, and normal for children to push boundaries as they grow up, and that stoning children for doing so is fucked in the head.

    They also added things like “wash your food. and your hands.” to it. Mostly it was ritual and not about practical hygiene.

    I mean. if you had just read the damn passage you’d know these things. the washing of food and hands as a ritual purity was not part of the torah. it’s part of the Oral Law.

    So when he says “you’re righteousness must exceed the pharisees”… He’s saying they don’t measure up because they are not following the Law of Moses.

    Also, if you actually read Mark 7, you’d also know the answer to this:

    I have no idea what you mean when you say that Jesus explicitly “cited a law that directs people to stone kids who talk back.”

    Specifically, Jesus says in verses 9 and 10:

    9Then he said to them, “You have a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition! 10For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘Whoever speaks evil of father or mother must surely die.’

    The first is found in Exodus 20:12 and Deuteronomy 5:16

    Honor your father and your mother, so that your days may be long in the land that the Lord your God is giving you.
    and Honor your father and your mother, as the Lord your God commanded you, so that your days may be long and that it may go well with you in the land that the Lord your God is giving you.

    What they mean by “honor your mother and father” here includes obedience. (as well as holding reverence and respect).

    The second is Exodus 21:17 and Lev 20:9. most christian translations will say “cursed” or “speak ill of” or something to that effect, for example, the NSRVUE:

    Whoever curses father or mother shall be put to death.
    and All who curse father or mother shall be put to death; having cursed father or mother, their bloodguilt is upon them.

    the word being used in the original Hebrew is ‘qalal’, which yes, can mean “curse”. It also means “to insult:”, to “revile” or to “speak with contempt”. when they do so, it’s less in the sense of a ritual invoking harm on a person, and more speaking evil of them. (which is how Jesus phrased it. funny, huh?)

    the JPS, though, as a jewish translation puts it as “insult”

    Lev20:9, as the example:

    Regarding anyone who insults their father or their mother: they shall be put to death; they have insulted their father and their mother—and the bloodguilt is theirs.

    There’s no law in the Old Testament that says that.

    lol. so, Jesus literally quotes the damn thing in the passage. still gonna lecture when you don’t even know that much?

    Yes, selling a daughter is a horrible practice, but it was the norm for much of human history. The Bible wasn’t written in a cultural vacuum. It takes people’s practices as they are and tries to push things in the right direction.

    So you’re saying an all-powerful god, dictating his eternal and absolute and perfect law to his bronze age idiots couldn’t be like “don’t do that, that’s messed up”, but he could say things like “don’t wear clothes of blended fabrics,” and “Don’t eat shellfish or pork”- all of which was far, far more common?

    But what you don’t understand is that only a small part of Christianity considers the Bible to be the “inerrant Word of God.” Jesus didn’t,

    yes. he. fucking. did. Read your damn book.

    17“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. 18For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter, not one stroke of a letter, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. 19Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

    Earlier you said:

    Here, Matthew is actually doing the opposite of what you think. When he writes, “Whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven,”

    lets summarize the meaning of the words on the page, shall we?

    • “I didn’t come to abolish the law of the prophets”
    • “I didn’t come to abolish [the law] but fulfill [the prophets]”
    • “the law is eternal”
    • “whoever breaks it will be the least”
    • “you need to be more righteous than those asshats who don’t even follow the law.”

    and you’re lecturing me on context? about twisting verses? You’re saying the exact opposite of what any honest person would read in that passage.

    Now lets have some fun. the 'new covenant" comes from Jeremiah 31:31-37.

    it says that god will create a new covenant because they broke the old one. And that god will do some magic binding rituals to ensure that this new covenant cannot be broken.

    So if Jesus did what he said he came to do (fulfill the prophets)… we literally would be incapable of breaking the written Law of Moses. Further, if Jesus was Messiah, then we’d not be having this conversation, The Kingdom of Israel would lead the entire world, Rome would have fallen at the hands of Jesus, and all the Israelites would have been gathered back home and there would be peace because no one would be physically able to deny god.

    Literally none of that happened. The very nature of the world as it exists today demonstrates the bullshit. So yeah. you actually did say one accurate thing:

    He disobeys the law more than once and asks his disciples to do the same. Then, after Jesus’s death, Peter is instructed to disobey the law even more.

    Being a blasphemer and false prophet is contrary to the Law of Moses. I get that’s not how you meant it. but it is true all the same. Jesus didn’t fulfill a single messianic prophecy.



  • Jesus stated unequivocally and emphatically (at least according to the scriptures) that the Law of Moses is eternal and will remain in force until the earth passes away.

    And he cited a law that directs people to stone kids that talk back as a gotcha in a legal beef with the Pharisees- who were like “maybe stoning children to death doesn’t fit the crime of sassing your parents, so we should not do that”

    That same legal code that Jesus explicitly endorsed expressly states that slavery is cool, and goes so far as to say that beating your slave to within an inch that slave’s life is acceptable.

    That legal code also says roughly half of all women should be stoned because whoever wrote the damn thing didn’t understand female anatomy.

    That legal code says it’s totally cool to sell your daughters as sex slaves.

    It says you should stone kids that talk back.

    That is “biblical morality”. They might be a decent person but they worship an awful scum bag that makes Epstein and Trump look positively benign.

    And that is all just reading the damn book with some honesty.

    Suffice it to say you’re analogy is stupid and doesn’t follow. Christians worship a dude who had more to say about paying taxes to your oppressors than he had to say about slavery.

    The morality of Jesus isn’t a political spectrum. He’s a raging asshole and his morals should be left to rot in whatever unmarked grave his disciples hid his corpse in.


  • I don’t care how “progressive” a Christian is. They worship a god that thinks it’s okay to sell your own daughter into sex slavery and murder infants of the offense of their ancestors supposedly rebuffing Israelites during the exodus (and rightly so! Look what they did to Cannan.) even though the exodus never happened.





  • I’m not sure what you mean by “it doesn’t follow.” It absolutely does.

    If you use a tool for one specific task, and that tool is also useful for other, functionally identical tasks, you’re probably going to use that tool for the second task.

    Like if a carpenter uses a Stanley #4 bench plane to finish a table top, they’re probably also going to use it for finish a cabinet’s top or side walls, etc.

    Similarly, if a carpenter uses a jig saw to cross cut a board, it’s likely they’re also perfectly okay with using powered drills.

    So if someone uses generative ai to create a thumbnail for the video, they’re likely to use it to create other graphics in the video.

    If someone uses generative ai for those tasks, they’re also likely to use LLMs or other ai tools for other tasks.

    Some one already using Ai is more likely to use AI again.

    I don’t care whose fault it is, content creators aren’t entitled to my clicks. I have no obligation to click any video on YouTube, never mind watch the full thing.

    If the thumbnail is ai slop, I have exactly zero reasons to believe the rest of it won’t also have ai slop. The creator can make whatever choices they want.

    But I have no obligation to that creator. So when I decide that the use of AI is unethical, and pass on any video that uses it- that’s fully my choice. Similarly peole snarking on the comments or downvoting it… that’s also their choice. (I’m not even sure its legitimately a brigade. Knowing nothing else about the matter, I’m skeptical.)