Okay I dig, as the old quote goes all that is requires for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

So what do you consider meaningful opposition?

So what action are you suggesting? We do demonstrations and protests and letters and all that but Trump has made it very clear he does not give one single shit what other people think.

We have a Congressional election coming up later this year and it is currently expected that those who oppose Trump will win significant numbers.

Or are you suggesting forget about peaceful action within the bounds of the Constitution and go straight to armed rebellion?

Personally I would rather have the country reject Trump in elections and walk away from this whole thing with a bad taste in its mouth that would make it harder for someone like him to gain power in the future, than to have some kind of violent illegal uprising that would only strengthen Trump’s supporters.

I think there’s a difference between logically knowing that some undefined but non zero number of Americans oppose MAGA, and actually seeing one of them stand up publicly against what the government is saying.

If anything I wish more people would do what I am doing. I would love if every time Trump says one of these bullshit things there was a loud outcry online of Americans disavowing his awful international relations.

From what I have seen of Trump, it is pretty clear he does not care what anyone else thinks and his vindictive as hell. So rather than writing him I think I could use my time more productively by repeatedly slamming my face in the refrigerator door. At least that way I’m less likely to end up on some sort of list.

What I do instead is vote for candidates in Congress that oppose Trump and his ideology. And spend time in online discussions like this one making it clear the American people are not in lockstep behind him.

Fair enough 🙂

Participating in the political process, opposing Trump and his ideology in discussions and debates, promoting and contributing to political candidates who oppose Trump and MAGA ideology, and of course voting against Trump and for candidates that oppose him and his ideology.

And, from time to time, using my own voice to speak out against some of the things Trump says. Such as 4his thread right here.

Genuine question, what more would you have a person do?

My comfort is irrelevant. I’m just another idiot on the internet.

But genuine question, you say I am a fascist enabling coward who cares little about democracy.

So what would you have me do? Like, you have a single American who has never voted for or supported Trump, for such a person what does ‘caring about democracy’ look like? What might that single American say or do that would make you say ‘that person right there is no coward, that is a stand-up human being who values democracy’?

I’m asking because you say I do it wrong, I am curious what doing it right looks like?

Your opinion of me is quite irrelevant.

The only thing I want people to take away from this whole thread is that there are a lot of Americans who strongly oppose Trump, who love and support Canada, and who find the current messages coming out of Washington abhorrent. It certainly doesn’t make anything better. My only hope is when you watch the news and you see the crap coming out of Washington, you keep in mind that crap is coming out of Washington and not most of the rest of the country. You have friends here.
I realize that means scant little when your country is on fire and your neighbor’s government is telling you to fuck off and threatening to tax or conquer you.

And those are the only two options?

I assure you we are trying. Our election structure does not allow us to replace the executive government for another couple years. Congress, our legislative body, is the only ones that can forcibly remove a sitting President. Multiple decades of having Congressional elections ignored by voters attentions has left our Congress thoroughly dysfunctional.

So that means short of some real smoking gun there is little option for rapid change.

I actually agree with this 100%. We are definitely somewhere between our peak in the '90s and a bad place. And I agree that mandatory civic piety is always a bad sign. It’s actually one of my biggest frustrations about USA currently, I feel like a lot of Americans babble about how much they love the country and love freedom but don’t actually take any real action to uphold the real ideals of freedom as our founders did.

A lot of MAGA people and also evangelicals exemplify this. ‘I Love America and I love freedom! But if you don’t support my religion or prejudice against LGBT or my political goals then no freedom for you!’ They buy a bunch of guns and talk about how they are ready to defend freedom for all Americans, and then support political processes that strip freedoms from many Americans. I think it’s a mixture of ignorance and hypocrisy in various measures.

One of the most frustrating things is ‘I love my country’ sounds exactly the same whether it comes from someone of principle or someone parroting a line. I can only speak for myself, but when I say I love what my country stands for I am talking about the ideals ensconced in our Constitution by our founders. The idea that we are not sheep, we are not peasants, we are each responsible for our own nation. Government of the people by the people for the people. Unfortunately a lot of our country has drifted away from those ideals in many ways.

Also sort of a question, I know Canada is bilingual and there is some portion of the country that primarily or solely speaks French. Thus it seemed disrespectful and presumptive/arrogant to address the country speaking only in English. But I am curious what the proper etiquette is for such things. Do all Canadian websites have an English/French toggle button?

Great question.

One of the biggest things I am proud of is how many people stand up against MAGA and continue to even come out in protests such as the no kings rally. It makes me happy that people are still willing to stand up and be counted for what they believe in.
More broadly, anytime I see someone fighting to make the country a better place it warms my heart. And there is a lot of that, even if it isn’t obvious from the outside.

I am proud of what we have accomplished, and continue to accomplish, in the area of civil rights and personal liberties. That is not a completely solved problem, but Americans stand up everyday to fight for it and I am proud of that.

I am proud of space related activity in the US. We have multiple private companies actively launching things on a regular basis, One of which has the largest satellite constellation in the world by far providing internet and cell phone service anywhere on the globe.
And on the government side, I am proud of our participation in ISS, in our missions to bring humans back to the Moon, and to build newer space stations.

I am proud of our work with electric vehicles and electric transportation. I wish we were doing more, wish we were doing it faster, but we are still doing it.

I am proud of the vibrant aviation world that is present in the US, more so than almost any other country. I’m not just talking about airliners, I am talking about small planes, and our pilot culture here. It’s easier to become a pilot in the US than most other countries and we have many more small private aircraft to fly. Or build yourself.

No country is just one thing. I love the good parts of what my country is and I will work to fix the bad parts. Are you saying I should reject my entire country because some of it is bad?

I believe that in every group, outsiders will see the group as represented by its loudest and most visible subgroup, unless other members of the group take steps to distance themselves from that subgroup.

Fact is, we elected the dude. We regret it (according to the latest approval polls at least) but we still elected him. And Trump / MAGA are by far the loudest and most visible subgroup of Americans, at least I assume they are to the outside. Thus, someone on the outside could reasonably assume that Trump speaks for all of the country, myself included, unless some of the rest of us stand up and say ‘he doesn’t speak for us, that isn’t our message’.

So my goal here is to do just that- even as one person, to stand up and say Trump doesn’t speak for me, his hate filled comments are NOT my message and not the message of a great many Americans. We love our northern neighbors and we have a lot more respect for you all than our leadership is showing.

You can do with that what you will. What I hope you take from it is an understanding that we do not all speak with one voice, that there are decent people in the US and we’re not just MAGA idiots and racist hicks.

I’m proud of my country’s history and what those who founded it stood for- freedom, independence, liberty, and self determination both as an individual and as a society. I’m proud of what those who followed accomplished- civil rights, technology, the Internet, art, music, science, and of course aviation.

We are not perfect. From the day Columbus set foot on the continent and killed natives, we have had a checkered history. Slavery, racism, sexism, interventionist wars in other countries, the internment of Japanese citizens during WWII, imperialism in the 1900s, the ‘global war on terror’ in the 2000s, and the majority of how the USA has conducted itself on the world stage over the Trump years, especially how we have treated our allies and friends.

I guess the analogy I would make is think of your child, even if they are badly behaved you still love them and are glad to be their parent. And even if they sneak out and smoke weed you’re still the proudest person in the room when they win the science fair.

Make sense?

Haha I didn’t even realize that what I wrote fit that song…

I am proud to be an American. I am not proud of my country’s current actions. As a nation, we are far from perfect. We’ve done a lot of stupid shit and continue to do even more stupid shit. Doesn’t mean I don’t love my country.

Why not both? Promise you we’re doing it.

When other people speak on my behalf, I can clarify that I am not part of that, speaking on behalf of the great many people who don’t want to be part of that.

Why not both?

You will absolutely be allowed on the counter when you follow the same rule that humans follow for working on the counter- wash your hands/paws with soap and water first.

Not into that? Then you stay on the floor.