“The future ain’t what it used to be.”

-Yogi Berra

  • 13 Posts
  • 265 Comments
Joined 2 years ago
cake
Cake day: July 29th, 2023

help-circle









  • You are the one living in a denial of the reality of voting, and your opinions about what you or I should do in regards to voting strategies are utterly irrelevant. And when you make it about my voting decisions, you’ve made it incredibly clear you either don’t understand the point or are intentionally avoiding having to deal with the primary point.

    This isn’t an argument about what one voter does. This is an argument about what voters do, and that’s where this shit lib self-glazing fantasy breaks down. You keep living in a fantasy were these paper strategies don’t have to actually be applied in a real world. You make the claim of this “hard truth” but totally fail to address that your “hard truth” never manifests into reality. Instead of grapelling with the fact that voters don’t vote strategically, and that making this utterly naive argument actually works against your cause, you just keep insisting that your fantastic, self defeating strategy is the only way things can be. And instead of dealing with the fact that I’m talking about voters, and electoralism, you try to make the argument about what I individually choose to do with a vote, which is not what this conversation is about.

    This faithless approach is self evident, and you are living in denial of reality. Reality is that voters aren’t interested in your interpretation of what or how they should vote. Reality is that voters can vote however they please. Reality is that the presentation of a candidate voters had no say in being someones “only option”, isn’t just deeply undemocratic, it functionally works against your goal (if that even is your goal, which I am barely able to offer you that charity any longer, considering how obviously this ideology of yours has led directly to the take over of fascism in the US: Fascism could not have happened here without these kinds of bad faith argument of yours).

    At this point, if you are making the kinds of bad faith arguments like you are here, the kinds of arguments that directly led to Fascism, I can’t consider you an ally.

    If you are doing work that prevents Democrats from being responsive to voters, you are doing the work of fascists: and fundamentally, the rhetoric of strategic voting does exactly this.





  • Every voter you blame for the failure of the Democrats to do the literally measliest effort to court their own base is two voters you’ve cost us in the next election. If you blame greens, your doing 3x damage to the future prospects of Democrats.

    You are doing actual fucking damage in the effort to stop fascism when you blame voters instead of the party. If you did it during the last election cycle, you literally paved the way for Trump to come into power.


  • Firstly, and I want to be very clear, this exact line of thinking is, in my view, one of the biggest political self-sabotage of the last decade. The “strategic voting” sermon is a toxic meme: it flatters people into thinking they’re doing game theory, when what they’re actually doing is laundering fear, cynicism, and party discipline into moral obligation.

    In a FPtP voting system you must vote strategically. You must vote against the party you like least.

    No. I don’t “must” do anything, and neither does any other voter. A vote is not a hostage note. It’s not a loyalty oath. It’s a signal of preference, and people will use it that way whether or not you approve.

    And the biggest problem is: the whole argument relies on a fantasy version of voters. It assumes (1) everyone agrees on who is “viable,” (2) everyone shares the same ranking of “least bad,” and (3) everyone will coordinate on the same “strategic” choice. That’s not how human beings behave. People have different risk tolerances, different values, different lines they won’t cross, and different beliefs about what’s possible. You can’t brute-force a coordination problem by scolding individuals.

    Worse: preaching “strategic voting” is self-fulfilling sabotage. The constant message of “don’t vote for who you want, vote for who you’re allowed to want” depresses enthusiasm, trains people to expect disappointment as the price of participation, and gives a hall pass to candidates to believe they no longer need to work for your vote. If you’re trying to help a candidate or party win, telling potential supporters that their real preferences are irresponsible is a great way to push them into disengagement, protest votes, or staying home, ALL of which are perfectly viable options.

    What the “must vote strategically” story really does: it shifts responsibility away from candidates and parties to earn votes, and puts the onus on voters to simply accept less bad, which loses elections. It turns elections into a blame game where voters are treated like malfunctioning parts that need to be corrected, and it handed the country to fascism.

    And I noticed what you did, trying to claim this as Russian propaganda. Again, deeply toxic, but I wouldn’t expect less from someone espousing the strategy that handed the country to Fascism.



  • Quit with these nonsense fever dreams. Nothing of what you described is remotely relevant to the discussion.

    The party to blame for the failure of 2016 and 2024 WA the Democratic party. Trump was and is one of the least popular candidates of all time. Democrats litterally needed to make some of the worst strategic choices available to them to lose to him, and they did.

    It’s the Democrats fault they lost both those elections. The lost those elections by blaming voters in advance while they courted a non existent center.