I’m so tired of reading this stupid argument. “People only dislike systemd because they’re afraid of change.” No, there are plenty of other concerning issues about it. I could probably write about a lot of problems with systemd (like the fact that my work laptop never fucking shuts down properly), but here’s the real issue:

Do you really think it’s a good idea for Red Hat to have total control over the most important component of every mainstream distro in existence?

Let’s consider an analogy: in 2008, Chrome was the shit. Everyone loved it, thought it was great and started using it, and adoption reached ~20-30% overnight. Alternatives started falling by the wayside. Then adoption accelerated thanks to shady tactics like bundling, silently changing users’ default browser, marketing it everywhere and downranking websites that didn’t conform to its “standards” in Google search. And next, Chrome adopted all kinds of absurdly complex standards forcing all other browser engines to shut down and adopt Chrome’s engine instead because nobody could keep up with the development effort. And once they achieved world domination, then we started facing things like adblockers being banned, browser-exclusive DRM, and hardware attestation.

That’s exactly what Red Hat is trying to pull in systemd. Same adoption story - started out as a nice product, definitely better than the original default (SysVInit). Then started pushing adoption aggressively by campaigning major distros to adopt it (Debian in particular). Then started absorbing other standard utilities like logind and udev. Leveraging Gnome to push systemd as a hard dependency.

Now systemd is at the world domination stage. Nobody knew what Chrome was going to do when it was at this point a decade ago, but now that we have the benefit of hindsight, we can clearly see that monoculture was clearly not a good idea. Are people so fucking stupid that they think that systemd/Red Hat will buck that trend and be benevolent curators of the open source Linux ecosystem in perpetuity? Who knows what nefarious things they could possibly do…

But there are hints, I suppose. By the way, check out Poettering’s new startup: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46784572

It’s mostly Gnome 2 frozen in time - there have been small improvements here and there, particularly in Caja (the file manager). I think that’s great though personally, and use it on most of my machines.

Wayland adoption has been slow, but it is getting there.

It was developed and released during a time where people obsessed with touch interfaces thanks to deficient computing devices like phones and tablets. So many people were wholly convinced that these things were going to completely replace general purpose computing, so projects like Gnome, which were being run by Red Hat, had to follow along one way or another, though they probably did so willingly.

In any case, I am SO glad those days are over. It was far, far worse than the AI hype that we have to put up with today.

I don’t think you understand the implications of what you’re suggesting.

Forking a project as large as Gnome is a massive undertaking. Not only is it a lot of up-front work to implement the functionality, but you also have to stay up-to-date with all upstream changes, and there’s likely at least a few Gnome developers that are paid to work on it full-time, so that is a lot to maintain. And not only do you have to build it for your own distro, but you also have to convince maintainers of other distros to adopt it as well and put it in their repositories, otherwise you have no community of users, which means no community of developers either.

Forking Gnome is wildly impractical. It’s not a feasible suggestion to make at all.

My current favorite game (Valheim) is Swedish, I believe.

Dear Google: we wouldn’t have to do this if you weren’t such a shit company.

Oh, you weren’t aware that you’re a shit company? You legitimately believe you’re a positive force for the world? Well that’s your own damn fault.

What a great idea! Just claim your product is healthy to people that don’t care about their health!

I had the same idea to write my CV in Latex, but then realized it’s not such a great idea. I wanted to keep it down to 2 pages, so I ended up having to do a lot of manual formatting (font size, margins, spacing), and the whole point of Latex is that you’re supposed to let the typesetter do the formatting for you. So I switched back to Libreoffice.

But if I had a long-form CV, ie. an academic-style CV where you list all publications, conference talks, etc. with no regard to length, then Latex would be ideal for that.

I haven’t read through the other responses in the thread, but I don’t think it’s the slightly old software that’s the problem. I think it has more to do with using older kernels, meaning that the latest hardware won’t always be supported (on the stable branch at least - there’s always testing and unstable too of course which may have better hardware support).

That may have changed with recent releases though - I haven’t used Debian for several years now. But if your hardware is supported then it’s a pretty solid choice.

Some other people sometimes mention that Debian isn’t as beginner friendly as Ubuntu or Mint, but my experiences have been similar to yours - I found Debian to more user-friendly than Ubuntu for example. Assuming that the hardware works of course - if it doesn’t then it obviously is a worse choice.

I also don’t get why they seem to be popular with people who like to act scientific, because they seem very unscientific to me.

They absolutely are. And it’s very aggravating to see people immediately invoking it without a second thought. They just assume it to be some absolute universal truth that should be accepted without question. But why?? How is that any different from religion at that point?

I utterly loathe Hanlon’s razor. It’s peak naivete, especially when it’s applied to groups of people that have ulterior motives - like business interests. It essentially gives companies a carte blanche to do evil shit, and when they get caught, all they have to do is blush and say “oops, how could that have possibly happened???!” But in reality, they were just doing some sort of self-serving behavior and hoping they could get away with it. And of course, they’ll just end up doing it again a few months or years later on when the attention has died away.

Moral of the story: Hanlon’s razor does not apply to corporations or other business interests. If it’s your neighbors, well maybe give them the benefit of the doubt. If it’s a multinational conglomerate, hell no, fuck that. Assume guilt 100% of the time.

It’s a publicly traded company, isn’t it? Most likely there is some investor in the CEO’s ear asking him to push this down on all staff… so they come up with bright ideas like putting silly “requirements” like this in their job descriptions as well. And in any case, AI investors are so desperate these days, chances are that they’re doing everything they can to create general LLM FOMO in a similarly desperate push to increase adoption.

That’s what I’m guessing at least. Even to me it sounds a little like a conspiracy theory, but then again these people have a lot of influence.

It means that the parent company has major investors in the LLM space.

The whole notion of CSDs is a blueprint example of what happens when UI designers try to think things through too hard. They come up with grand solutions to trivial problems that are so poorly thought through that they create even bigger problems.

Realistically, nobody is going rewrite their entire application just because of what a tiny cabal of Gnome developers think. Just read this post that was linked elsewhere in this thread. At the end, Tobias is basically arguing that people should go out there and harass the developers of all Linux desktop applications (including the entire KDE project!) to follow through on this ridiculous idea:

Thus, our goal is for as many apps as possible to have the following properites [sic]

• No title bar
• Native-looking close/maximize/minimize icons
• Respects the setting for showing/hiding minimize and maximize
• Respects the setting for buttons to be on the left/right side of the window

Which apps are affected? Basically, all applications not using GTK3 (and a few that do use GTK3). That includes GTK2, Qt, and Electron apps.

If that alone doesn’t alert people of how out-of-touch the Gnome developers are, then I don’t know what would.

I know what you mean, just beware: in lots of cases it’s not as universal (as in distro-independent) as some still think it is.

This is especially true when we start talking about BSDs and other non-GNU platforms.

Interesting. Were you using a Jenkinsfile? I’m not sure I completely understand your use case, but using a Jenkinsfile would mean that your entire pipeline would be defined in a file in source control, so you could roll it back if you made a change that didn’t work quite right. Seems to be what your looking for if I’m understanding what you’re looking for.

https://www.jenkins.io/doc/book/pipeline/jenkinsfile/

I looked at it for 5 seconds. The UI looked pretty hideous. Even new reddit looks better than it.

I’ve found the edit/test/debug loop in Jenkins to be much faster than Github Actions. It was quite a refreshing change when I made that transition.

The best way I found to do this is by commenting out the portions of the build that take the longest.

Which is stupid, but that’s what you get with Microsoft products.

(I get that there may be ways to test this locally, but I found this method to be the easiest.)

I thought they renamed their entire product line to “Copilot” by now, didn’t they?

Uninstalling it at this point would leave absolutely nothing left!