Yeah, I was hoping to connect the dots for people who are starting to think about these things. I often see people struggling with the idea that people can be happy in a society they themselves might not be happy in. It’s really easy to forget that our own values are not some universal standard, and doubly so for people who have no other point of reference aside from the society they grew up in.

And I had a similar experience as well, like you read these things and just nod along because you’ve basically worked through the problem yourself and arrived at the same place. In a way it does feel good to see your own thinking validated though. :)

No, I’m not using --release every time of course. And sometimes it’s minutes even with the cache.

I should really revisit this. I know I looked at it again. The compiling crops up I you actually want to run the app and test drive the changes live.

the thread in one picture

Yes, I move things around.

Yeah, not gonna miss app servers. I do find the JVM was kind of made for a different era though. It’s basically designed to act like a VM on top of which all your apps run. So, startup time isn’t really a problem, and it wants to grab as much memory as it can by default. But nowadays everybody just makes small self contained apps that you can scale horizontally, so this whole model the JVM is tailored for isn’t really used outside big enterprise. And Jenkins was alight, I used to use it back in the day too. For the most part, I do find GitHub actions are an improvement though. You just make a script and magic happens.

same, would be fun if it took off

why would I want to interact with imbeciles more?

I recall looking at mold, but it didn’t end up helping much in my case. And haven’t looked at sccache, that might actually help if it can cache compilation incrementally in an intelligent way.

I mean if it’s going against Anthropic pricing that’s steal a good deal.

It’s around 100k loc sized project, so from what I’ve seen that’s about what you can expect with Rust.

d’aww so adorable of you to start projecting

Says dumb shit in public, acts all offended when called out on said dumb shit. Go clutch your pearls elsewhere loser.

indeed

Right, you basically have to start building a rube goldberg machine for compiling your app just so you don’t have to wait for minutes on end. And to me it is absolutely bananas that you can make a compiler this slow on modern hardware. Coming from largely working with Clojure where I have a live application I can interactively load code into as I edit it, this whole process feels insane.

haha this reminds me of my days working with websphere :)

I’ve got a non trivial project in Rust, and it takes like 5 min to compile on my machine. Personally, I don’t know how anybody can call this fun. I find it insane to have to wait minutes to see the changes and to iterate. And like sure you can break shit up into crates to speed up compilation, but to do that you already have to have a design you’re happy with and that’s stable.

I think the big picture here is that the difference in quality is largely subjective at this point, while US companies are burning through orders of magnitude of cash which is obviously not sustainable. We shouldn’t underestimate the power of developing things in the open. Chinese open models benefit from the wisdom of an entire global research community while American engineers working on proprietary closed models are working in their own insular silos. It should be no surprise that the scientific community at large would pull ahead of these small teams. On top of that, doing research in the open amortizes the cost. Incidentally, this is exactly the same logic that led open source to dominate in recent years.

The energy consumption trope in particular hasn’t been true for a while now. You can literally run models on your laptop for most tasks, and these are models that have capability that needed a data centre literally less than a year go. Meanwhile, the whole notion of people offloading their cognitive capacity to models is based on a handful of studies with tiny samples. So yes, you are wrong, and you just run around uncritically repeating nonsense thinking you’re being really profound.

Thank you for taking your valuable time away from huffing gas to grace us all with your insights.