They’re just like maga, “Debate me bro.” And then they proceed to reject all the facts and logic that you provide, while getting upset when you dismiss the alternative “facts” that they make up.
Like, what is this? “Argues without insulting us” AND “Argues without tone policing”? So, what, tankies want to be the only ones who can tone police and insult their counterparts in an argument?
Like, pick one or the other and apply the same rules to both sides. Ideally neither side throws insults, and either side can tone police. But don’t say “we can do both, and you can do neither.” That’s the same “rules for thee, not for me” rhetoric that all authoritarians use, whether on the left or on the right.
Tankies are just covert fascists. Prove me wrong.
I don’t think they’re quite fascist because of the economic difficreneces and social wellbeing policies.
But they are undoubtedly both authoritarian, and that’s pretty much the biggest problem because it practically makes the two identical.
Tankies are sometimes called red fash since they argue in support of fascism as opposed to actually caring for the people. I mentioned it before, Tankies don’t operate on the basis of parties or workers. They are authoritarians, so when they mean CCP, they mean Xi. When they mean Russia, they mean Putin. That’s why if you explore their spaces and engage with them, they will almost never actually argue for the workers or people
They love their “strong” leaders and deify them – I mean, really, who has photos of a dead dictator in their room? What is that?
They also don’t really have any “social wellbeing policies”. They spend almost zero time discussing those, and almost all of the time discussing how evil “the libs” are.
It’s because they don’t care for communism or any sort of communist or even socialist values. They only care about “west bad”
If you take their theory at face value, correct. If you observe their attitudes and actions, you see that they don’t really care about implementing those theories. They only discuss them to give themselves a veneer of moral superiority.
Stalin didn’t lift the proletariat out of poverty; he merely starved and murdered all the peasants who didn’t join his party. He didn’t liberate the masses, he implemented a highly oppressive surveillance/police state.
The average anarchist will be the first to try to bully someone into complying with their preferred systems of social order. They only want there to be no government so that nothing can stop them from forcing everyone else to conform to their will.
That’s what I mean by “covert” fascist. Nominally leftist, practically not.
Equating anarchists to fascists is genuinely in the top five most stupid fucking political takes I have ever heard in my life. What the fuck do you think anarchists want force on you?
“Fuck these anarchists, they want to get rid of hierarchy and government so I won’t have a boot to suck the polish off of.” Is what you fucking sound like. The comm is for shitting on tankies. Anarchists are not tankies. Tankie does not mean leftist, it means authoritarian communist.
Anarchists aren’t tankies, no. But a shocking amount of them, on Lemmy at least, cosy up with Tankies and even argue in favour of authoritarian states, or defend them. From my experience, the average anarchist hates the liberal more than the tankie, despite the latter being in direct opposition to their principles.
Yes, and I actively distance myself from them. Its why I moved from dbzer0 to quokk.au and from Lemmy to Piefed. Anarchists who cosy up to MLs are naive and fail to learn from a hundred years of history. Anarchism is just as incompatible with statism and authority as it is with capitalism. That is not to say I wont work with liberals and marxists, just that I would never trust them.
that’s actually really respectful to your ideals.
why do you think so many anarchists, like those from dbzer0, cosy up to tankies?
Its scary fighting back. You want allies, and many of them so the odds dont feel so impossible. Its hard not to fall into the thinking that capitalism is the bigger threat, so we should work together against the common enemy. “We’ll figure out which communism is best after the revolution” is what I often hear. Issue is, looking at history, we get backstabbed before we get to see the end of the revolution. In the end though, its hard not to end up trusting those you spend time working with.
I don’t like a lot of the self-proclaimed anarchists for that specific reason. They give the rest of us a really bad look. They miss the whole point of being anti-authoritarian, anti-heirchical, anti-coercisive, and anti-capitalist.
I understand why they are that way, I’m like 99% sure it’s a neurodivergent thing (black-and-white thinking, rejection of authority, failure to recognize social norms, we pretty much all do it to some degree, and some are much more obvious than others).
Like a doctor is an authority on health. Why? Because they earned it. They put their livelihood on the line by licensure and risk to avoid malprat. Governments where only a select few are voted for and the rest of the representation is all because of Republic stances rather than democratic ones are not deserving of authority.
Also, it might be that the anarchists you have met are not anarchists at all. It sounds much more like the communists I know.
it might be that the anarchists you have met are not anarchists at all. It sounds much more like the communists I know.
I can think of one in particular, a very arrogant and loud-mouthed, self-proclaimed anarchist, who if he had his way would force everyone to be vegan.
I understand animal rights, and I myself have been vegetarian for a few years. But if he’s truly an anarchist, then how does he expect to enforce veganism on everyone? Just seems cognitively dissonant…
For that matter, how do anarchists plan to stop racists and homophobes from doing racist and homophobic things? It just seems short-sighted, especially from people who profess to be vulnerable minorities. You’d think they would at least want a government that protects them and ensures their equal rights, no?
When you encounter this anarchist, I implore you to question them on how China treats animals. Very curious to see what will happen.
Just some inarticulate posturing and vague implications that I don’t know what I’m talking about, probably.
Like when someone else wore a PLA hat and I asked him how many civilians died in the great leap forward, clearly the reason he didn’t have an answer was because I was the ignorant one. “Oh, you wanna talk to me about the great leap forward?” Acting all insulted
That’s probably how it will go.
I think it’s telling that they can’t admit their ideology has faults or has made mistakes. It’ll never get anywhere.
Hey, probably don’t blame it 99% on neurodivergence. I’m autistic, and why I do reject authority and struggle with social norms, I don’t see people and views in black and white.
thats why i offered the baseline lol
There’s no rationally debating them. It’s like trying to rationally debate maga. They’ll ignore everything you say and make up scenarios that would make you the clear loser, and then bludgeon the strawman to death with insults and repeat themselves over and over no matter how many times you point out how irrational they’re being…
“What is not reasoned in, cannot be reasoned out.”
Something all too common with extremists. It’s fruitless to argue with facts and logic™ since they live in a different reality.
The only way to get through to them is playing therapist and figuring out their emotions and getting them to question themselves. Questions like, why does China have a stock exchange? Why can’t you be gay in Russia? Why did Lenin say don’t let Stalin take control? That’s why they band together so much and silence all opposition that ask questions, they can’t risk thinking inwards. They need to affirm each other, while non-extremists don’t need to, since reality is on their side.
I agree mostly with that but i also, personally, need to keep on top of adequately questioning my own reasoning.
Just because i think reality is on my side doesn’t make it automatically true, I’m not immune to propaganda or fallacious logic.
Even worse (for me personally) is the trap of assuming my subjective (and relatively well reasoned ) correctness in other conversations carries over in to whatever conversation I’m having right now.
A sense of conversational and intellectual superiority can be an insidious path to closed mind.
Justified ban
why that
Concern trolling and ban evasion. https://lemmy.world/post/35172737
i wasn’t trolling
sure i was evading a ban, but who gives a shit? you can’t stop alt accounts on fediverse, I’m sure you know this well
One would almost think this a joke screenshot.
sometimes i consider if it’s just a massive troll, but then i wander into their chatrooms and it’s just nonstop bitching and moaning lol
must be tiring being a keyboard warrior fighting against capitalism and fascism by posting memes
got banned for pointing out that they can’t pull a revolution when they can’t even handle words like… GASP…
idiot
Mod accidentally revealed his IQ of 80
Room temp IQ but can’t afford the heating bill.
They want us to debate with them but they ban us when they lose. Typical ML getting rid of people who become dangerous to their belief in their worldview.
