You can’t compare China, who hasn’t waged a single war in 50 years, to a genocidal entity like “Israel” that is being constantly aided by the US empire and defended by the western propaganda machine.
And regarding Xinjiang, you may need to look at the facts before throwing terms like “ethnic cleansing.”
EDIT: I have to add how despicable and of ill nature it is to shift the conversation away from the issue at hand, i.e. the war crimes of the imperialist machine, and towards discursive topics.
China is now arguably the fifth largest supplier of arms supplying weapons and ammo to conflict regions. China is well known for its forced cultural assimilation and they have never stopped. Now they are openly committing genocide against Muslims.
I see you cherry picked the years because between the cultural revolution and the subsequent famine China lost well over 50 millions citizens.
We know the facts, the labor camps, the dramatic drop in birth rates, the altering of mosques to look more Chinese. Forced cultural assimilation is a genocidal act when the US did it to the Native Americans. China is no different.
Why did the Chinese lose so many citizens fighting fascist just to adopt capitalism and produce more billionaires than the US this and last year while also being an obvious oligarchy. Why did all these innocents need to die just for China to become fascist themselves?
If the US disappeared tomorrow Chiva would happily fill its spot as a the number one human rights abuser with their garbage partners Russia and North Korea.
Now they are openly committing genocide against Muslims.
Opening in the sense that there’s been over a decade of accusations and still no actual evidence of even a single death, or indeed any physical evidence at all, with the excuse that it’s all going on in secret. So, the opposite of open.
Israel couldn’t hide genocide in Gaza despite having it completely locked down and the tacit support of the media, but apparently China is doing it on an even bigger scale in a place people can freely travel to.
I am absolutely not saying that what China has done is anything close to Israel and the wholesale slaughter of the Palestinians. Instead it is very similar to the genocide the US did with Puerto Rico.
Why did the Chinese lose so many citizens fighting fascist just to adopt capitalism and produce more billionaires than the US this and last year while also being an obvious oligarchy. Why did all these innocents need to die just for China to become fascist themselves?
Capitalism and socialism are not some clear cut systems or categories that can be merely “adopted.” They are modes of production that are dictated by the material and social relations of production in a given space at a given time. For instance, the transition from feudalism to capitalism did not occur neither swiftly, nor neatly nor universally; rather, capitalist bubbles existed at the epitome of feudal rule and did not expand until the favourable material circumstances emerged — abrupt demographic changes in the 14th century, colonialist ventures by private companies in American continent, and so forth. And even after capitalism became the dominant mode of production, feudalist relations of production still existed at the peripheries.
This is exactly what socialism looks like, a transitional stage that will bring forth a post-capitalist society once the international contradictions (Chinese millionaires) as well as external (US imperialist encroachment) are extinguished. Some policies may succeed, while others may fail and become lessons for future policymaking.
But to call this anything close to fascism is treason to the working classes of the Global South.
Now they are openly committing genocide against Muslims.
Just ask yourself a simple yet important question: what does the PRC stand to gain from indiscriminately persecuting its own citizens and making them suffer aimlessly?
You can travel right now to Xinjiang and visit all of its towns and cities freely with total access and ease (as many tourists do every year), and you would see people openly speaking Uyghur, rituals and local events practiced publicly, and mosques operating normally. If you’re adamant on believing what some white journalist from NYT or WSJ has to say instead of the locals and residents as well as tourists and independent, on-ground reporters, then this conversation should stop right here.
You don’t get more billionaires by practicing socialism. You would have to be truly naive to believe China is practicing socialism. Also, their greatest accomplishment of raising so many people out of poverty was because of capitalism not socialism.
Why does China engage in forced cultural assimilation? Because it always has throughout history. They even have a name for it, sinicization.
China has always and will always be imperialist which is why when campists call out the US for Imperialism it is so unbelievably hollow.
You can also travel to reservations in the US to see Native Americans dancing and singing. Clearly this proves the US has done nothing wrong. To be frank, your position is not supported by facts and it is naive to say the least.
The US also prosecutes their wealthy like Martin Shkreli. Does this suddenly absolve their capitalism. I know you are not joking, but it is hard to take you seriously when you hand wave the fact that China has now created more billionaires than the US for the second year in a row.
I judge a nations level of fascism by not only their wealthy inequality but a growing wealth gap. A truly socialist country would not have this issue. China continues to increase its wealth gap dramatically.
Again, you’re ignoring the fact that socialism is not a defined set of policies that gets to be uniformly applied in a vaccum. The trajectory even has historically varied from one socialist state to another. To attribute the accomplishments of the PRC to “capitalism” is inaccurate. What there is in China is a market economy that is predominated by public ownership and state-owned enterprises, which is nowhere close to capitalism.
You condemn the consequences of the early Maoist policies, and then equally condemn Dengist reforms. What’s the point of critiquing for the sake of critiquing, whem there is no constructive effort on your part to properly assess and understand the material and historical circumstances that have led to China’s development into what it is now, only being guided by emotions and a confident lack of theory. One recent book on the matter that I recommend is Socialism with Chinese Characteristics by Roland Boer.
China has always and will always be imperialist
This is ahistorical and untheoretical thinking on your part. Imperialism is an advanced form of capitalism. An imperialist state is one that has saturated its domestic markets and as a consequence seeks to expand its markets and the reproduction of private capital overseas, by all means possible and most notably by force. China simply does not possess the features of imperialism. Prolewiki has a very informative article that explains the concept.
Until now, you’ve only indiscriminately sprinkled terms like imperialism and capitalism and fascism without much thought in the process, and so we’ve reached an impasse.
As to the Xinjiang matter, your views reflect those of the western propaganda machine. I’ve already mentioned above a FAQ compiled by Dessalines (yes, Lemmy’s lead dev) which contains many articles and documents that may at the very least give a different perspective on this matter.
Btw. Israel is comitting a genocide in Gaza. Now by your logic, surely my comment must be deleted, right?
But if you are honest, you don’t give a shit about people in Gaza.
Why would you attack me by implying I have alterior motives when I simply replied to the top comment? It doesn’t mention an “imperialist machine”, it states that there will be a world war against the US & Israel.
I simply stated that I can see no “good” allied forces against the “bad” axis in this conflict as in WW2 (let’s just say that, for all its own problems, the lines were more clearly defined back then). Everyone’s kinda the baddies now.
Regarding your sources: Wow, someone has certainly been busy. I simply haven’t had the time to read it all, but if you consider a paid journalist on a curated trip to the region and a professionally produced video series with apparent residents as credible sources, I am not convinced. It’s no secret that Bejing has a heavy grip on the media and censors basically all critical outlets. I do not expect any official account of anything bad ever happening there.
The concept of an independent Tibet never existed before the British imperialists in India plotted to expand their sphere of influence into China. See for instance the Lhasa Convention.
Furthermore:
Britain put before the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs a five-point demand, indicating the denial of China’s sovereignty over Tibet. When the Chinese government rejected the British demand, the British blocked all the roads leading from the British Raj in India to Tibet.
In 1913 the British government coerced local Tibetan authorities into declaring independence and proposed that:
“Britain be the weaponry supplier after total independence of Tibet;”
“Tibet accept British envoys’ supervision of Tibetan financial and military affairs in return for Britain’s support of Tibetan independence;”
“Britain be responsible for resisting the army of the Republic of China when it reaches Tibet;”
“Tibet adopt an open policy and allow freedom of movement of the British.”
You can’t compare China, who hasn’t waged a single war in 50 years, to a genocidal entity like “Israel” that is being constantly aided by the US empire and defended by the western propaganda machine.
And regarding Xinjiang, you may need to look at the facts before throwing terms like “ethnic cleansing.”
EDIT: I have to add how despicable and of ill nature it is to shift the conversation away from the issue at hand, i.e. the war crimes of the imperialist machine, and towards discursive topics.
China is now arguably the fifth largest supplier of arms supplying weapons and ammo to conflict regions. China is well known for its forced cultural assimilation and they have never stopped. Now they are openly committing genocide against Muslims.
I see you cherry picked the years because between the cultural revolution and the subsequent famine China lost well over 50 millions citizens.
We know the facts, the labor camps, the dramatic drop in birth rates, the altering of mosques to look more Chinese. Forced cultural assimilation is a genocidal act when the US did it to the Native Americans. China is no different.
Why did the Chinese lose so many citizens fighting fascist just to adopt capitalism and produce more billionaires than the US this and last year while also being an obvious oligarchy. Why did all these innocents need to die just for China to become fascist themselves?
If the US disappeared tomorrow Chiva would happily fill its spot as a the number one human rights abuser with their garbage partners Russia and North Korea.
Opening in the sense that there’s been over a decade of accusations and still no actual evidence of even a single death, or indeed any physical evidence at all, with the excuse that it’s all going on in secret. So, the opposite of open.
Israel couldn’t hide genocide in Gaza despite having it completely locked down and the tacit support of the media, but apparently China is doing it on an even bigger scale in a place people can freely travel to.
You keep saying that there is no evidence does not make it true. Birth rates plummeted by as much as 60% with China providing IUDs and sterilization.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/12/chinese-uyghur-policy-causes-unprecedented-fall-in-xinjiang-birthrates
I am absolutely not saying that what China has done is anything close to Israel and the wholesale slaughter of the Palestinians. Instead it is very similar to the genocide the US did with Puerto Rico.
Capitalism and socialism are not some clear cut systems or categories that can be merely “adopted.” They are modes of production that are dictated by the material and social relations of production in a given space at a given time. For instance, the transition from feudalism to capitalism did not occur neither swiftly, nor neatly nor universally; rather, capitalist bubbles existed at the epitome of feudal rule and did not expand until the favourable material circumstances emerged — abrupt demographic changes in the 14th century, colonialist ventures by private companies in American continent, and so forth. And even after capitalism became the dominant mode of production, feudalist relations of production still existed at the peripheries.
A similar perspective should be adopted in China. The existence of markets is not a core aspsct of capitalism; and regarding billionaires, the PRC prosecutes even more of them, in addition to the tens of thousands of millionaires who emigrate every year.
This is exactly what socialism looks like, a transitional stage that will bring forth a post-capitalist society once the international contradictions (Chinese millionaires) as well as external (US imperialist encroachment) are extinguished. Some policies may succeed, while others may fail and become lessons for future policymaking. But to call this anything close to fascism is treason to the working classes of the Global South.
Just ask yourself a simple yet important question: what does the PRC stand to gain from indiscriminately persecuting its own citizens and making them suffer aimlessly?
You can travel right now to Xinjiang and visit all of its towns and cities freely with total access and ease (as many tourists do every year), and you would see people openly speaking Uyghur, rituals and local events practiced publicly, and mosques operating normally. If you’re adamant on believing what some white journalist from NYT or WSJ has to say instead of the locals and residents as well as tourists and independent, on-ground reporters, then this conversation should stop right here.
You don’t get more billionaires by practicing socialism. You would have to be truly naive to believe China is practicing socialism. Also, their greatest accomplishment of raising so many people out of poverty was because of capitalism not socialism.
Why does China engage in forced cultural assimilation? Because it always has throughout history. They even have a name for it, sinicization.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinicization
China has always and will always be imperialist which is why when campists call out the US for Imperialism it is so unbelievably hollow.
You can also travel to reservations in the US to see Native Americans dancing and singing. Clearly this proves the US has done nothing wrong. To be frank, your position is not supported by facts and it is naive to say the least.
The US also prosecutes their wealthy like Martin Shkreli. Does this suddenly absolve their capitalism. I know you are not joking, but it is hard to take you seriously when you hand wave the fact that China has now created more billionaires than the US for the second year in a row.
I judge a nations level of fascism by not only their wealthy inequality but a growing wealth gap. A truly socialist country would not have this issue. China continues to increase its wealth gap dramatically.
https://sccei.fsi.stanford.edu/china-briefs/rise-wealth-private-property-and-income-inequality-china
If you are trying to convince me you are a campist you have done an excellent job.
Again, you’re ignoring the fact that socialism is not a defined set of policies that gets to be uniformly applied in a vaccum. The trajectory even has historically varied from one socialist state to another. To attribute the accomplishments of the PRC to “capitalism” is inaccurate. What there is in China is a market economy that is predominated by public ownership and state-owned enterprises, which is nowhere close to capitalism.
You condemn the consequences of the early Maoist policies, and then equally condemn Dengist reforms. What’s the point of critiquing for the sake of critiquing, whem there is no constructive effort on your part to properly assess and understand the material and historical circumstances that have led to China’s development into what it is now, only being guided by emotions and a confident lack of theory. One recent book on the matter that I recommend is Socialism with Chinese Characteristics by Roland Boer.
This is ahistorical and untheoretical thinking on your part. Imperialism is an advanced form of capitalism. An imperialist state is one that has saturated its domestic markets and as a consequence seeks to expand its markets and the reproduction of private capital overseas, by all means possible and most notably by force. China simply does not possess the features of imperialism. Prolewiki has a very informative article that explains the concept.
Until now, you’ve only indiscriminately sprinkled terms like imperialism and capitalism and fascism without much thought in the process, and so we’ve reached an impasse.
As to the Xinjiang matter, your views reflect those of the western propaganda machine. I’ve already mentioned above a FAQ compiled by Dessalines (yes, Lemmy’s lead dev) which contains many articles and documents that may at the very least give a different perspective on this matter.
Seeing as you have be unable to effectively refute anything I have said I think we are done here. Cheers!
feddit.org
The zionist instance lmao. Be careful mate the polizei might come to your house if you don’t support the genocide enough, you dirty antisemite
Oof you drank the db0 kool-aid. My condolences.
Btw. Israel is comitting a genocide in Gaza. Now by your logic, surely my comment must be deleted, right? But if you are honest, you don’t give a shit about people in Gaza.
Now try saying “genocidal states should be dismantled”.
Now try saying “from the river to the sea”
Triple reply? Someone’s triggered…
Yes i’m triggered asshole some friend died. Piece of shit. I hope they bomb your mum with white phosphorus see if you wouldn’t get TriGgeRed
My wife’s arab you fucking piece of shit
Why would you attack me by implying I have alterior motives when I simply replied to the top comment? It doesn’t mention an “imperialist machine”, it states that there will be a world war against the US & Israel.
I simply stated that I can see no “good” allied forces against the “bad” axis in this conflict as in WW2 (let’s just say that, for all its own problems, the lines were more clearly defined back then). Everyone’s kinda the baddies now.
Regarding your sources: Wow, someone has certainly been busy. I simply haven’t had the time to read it all, but if you consider a paid journalist on a curated trip to the region and a professionally produced video series with apparent residents as credible sources, I am not convinced. It’s no secret that Bejing has a heavy grip on the media and censors basically all critical outlets. I do not expect any official account of anything bad ever happening there.
Invading Tibet was an act of war.
The concept of an independent Tibet never existed before the British imperialists in India plotted to expand their sphere of influence into China. See for instance the Lhasa Convention.
Furthermore:
Source.
I thought we were defederating lemmy.ml?