But that’s what I’m saying. Working together towards the same goal of defeating capitalists is what matters.
Sure.
Yelling at each other over how to achieve it cause one believes it undermines the other is bad.
Fuck no.
If you believed my work was undermining the end goal of overthrowing capitalism, why the ever-loving fuck would you stay quiet about that?
If someone believed that helping Nazis genocide the Jews was going to help the Allies win WW2, would that not be a point one should object to for reasons both moral and strategic, regardless of the fact that the end goal of defeating the Nazis is the same?
Thing is my belief isn’t the only one that matters. If I think it’s bad, but others on our side see it as good, then who am I to tell you to stop doing it? Sure I can suggest my preferred way of doing things, but that’s just it. My way of wanting to get things done is my way and possibly the way of others that agree with me. Just like your way is how you’d prefer to get things done and people that agree with you will join and help. We both can amase a community built “army” (or whatever term you’d use) to achieve the end goal. Mine can support third party candidates at every level from local to national along with working to convince people in a deep red midwest state to do the same. Yours can support the Dem candidates at every level and work to primary out corporate Dems while holding your nose for the “lesser evil”. Neither hurts the other, even if you want to believe getting people to vote for a non-Dem candidate hurts your goal even with plenty of other work being done at the community level.
Thing is my belief isn’t the only one that matters. If I think it’s bad, but others on our side see it as good, then who am I to tell you to stop doing it?
If someone believed that helping Nazis genocide the Jews was going to help the Allies win WW2, would that not be a point one should object to for reasons both moral and strategic, regardless of the fact that the end goal of defeating the Nazis is the same?
We both can amase a community built “army” (or whatever term you’d use) to achieve the end goal. Mine can support third party candidates at every level from local to national along with working to convince people in a deep red midwest state to do the same. Yours can support the Dem candidates at every level and work to primary out corporate Dems while holding your nose for the “lesser evil”. Neither hurts the other, even if you want to believe getting people to vote for a non-Dem candidate hurts your goal even with plenty of other work being done at the community level.
Man, I’m not even talking about primaries, I’m talking about one vote every four fucking years for the sake of minimizing the harm of a presidential position which has become far too fucking powerful. I’m not here to fight with anyone talking third party anywhere from local dog catcher to the fucking Senate. Just on the presidency, which, as we have seen presently, kind of does affect the lives of literal millions by the one fucking person who gets into office.
If you think taking 20 minutes out of your fucking day once every four years to minimize the chances of mass-murder of American minorities, marginalized groups abroad, and, as with this latest insanity, thousands of Iranians, is too arduous, or too much of an intrusion on your ‘purity’…
I’m not going to pretend that’s a course of (in)action worthy of anything but utter disgust, same as someone who says that the way to win WW2 is to help the Nazis genocide the untermensch. I’m sure as shit not going to asspat you for it. We may be able to work together as-needed in other areas, but I’m never going to pretend that that’s anything but abhorrent.
I don’t know why you keep acting like I’m against voting when that’s all I’ve been supporting this whole thread. I do take the time out of my day to vote, even helping my elderly father who struggles walking get to the polls. I constantly advocate for more people to vote and convince my friends and coworkers to do the same. It’s just that the bubble I fill in (we only have paper tickets here no electric machines I hear other places got) doesn’t have a D or R next to it. The people I talk to are tired of the inaction Dems have shown for decades with many only voting for Conservatives cause they get tricked. I’ve gotten many who voted Trump in 2016 and 2020 to vote for actual progressives in 2024. We always talk about needing to build an actual progressive party and, as anyone will tell you, that starts by actually supporting them at every chance and takes a lot of time to achieve. Over 40k people supported a movement away from the major parties and no Harris would not have won the state had they all voted for her instead (she’d still be over 500k votes short and that’s with 70% of registered voters voting which is pretty close to the 75% figure I see many wish would vote). She’d need basically half of the remaining people to vote for her and I just don’t see a world in that happening after spending time with non-voters.
I don’t know why you keep acting like I’m against voting when that’s all I’ve been supporting this whole thread.
Against voting for harm reduction. IE, anything that might actually make a difference in the lives of millions.
We always talk about needing to build an actual progressive party and, as anyone will tell you, that starts by actually supporting them at every chance and takes a lot of time to achieve.
Yeah, and voting for a third party presidential candidate when the two major parties have been consistently polling at near 50% for the month before the election? Maybe not so fucking helpful.
I mean, very helpful to those who want to see more genocide and oppression of minorities, I guess. But that’s usually not a goal of leftists.
But hey, who cares about the thousands of dead Iranians? Not your problem, right? You have your moral purity to uphold.
I’m not going to pretend that’s a course of (in)action worthy of anything but utter disgust, same as someone who says that the way to win WW2 is to help the Nazis genocide the untermensch. I’m sure as shit not going to asspat you for it. We may be able to work together as-needed in other areas, but I’m never going to pretend that that’s anything but abhorrent.
Sure.
Fuck no.
If you believed my work was undermining the end goal of overthrowing capitalism, why the ever-loving fuck would you stay quiet about that?
If someone believed that helping Nazis genocide the Jews was going to help the Allies win WW2, would that not be a point one should object to for reasons both moral and strategic, regardless of the fact that the end goal of defeating the Nazis is the same?
Thing is my belief isn’t the only one that matters. If I think it’s bad, but others on our side see it as good, then who am I to tell you to stop doing it? Sure I can suggest my preferred way of doing things, but that’s just it. My way of wanting to get things done is my way and possibly the way of others that agree with me. Just like your way is how you’d prefer to get things done and people that agree with you will join and help. We both can amase a community built “army” (or whatever term you’d use) to achieve the end goal. Mine can support third party candidates at every level from local to national along with working to convince people in a deep red midwest state to do the same. Yours can support the Dem candidates at every level and work to primary out corporate Dems while holding your nose for the “lesser evil”. Neither hurts the other, even if you want to believe getting people to vote for a non-Dem candidate hurts your goal even with plenty of other work being done at the community level.
Man, I’m not even talking about primaries, I’m talking about one vote every four fucking years for the sake of minimizing the harm of a presidential position which has become far too fucking powerful. I’m not here to fight with anyone talking third party anywhere from local dog catcher to the fucking Senate. Just on the presidency, which, as we have seen presently, kind of does affect the lives of literal millions by the one fucking person who gets into office.
If you think taking 20 minutes out of your fucking day once every four years to minimize the chances of mass-murder of American minorities, marginalized groups abroad, and, as with this latest insanity, thousands of Iranians, is too arduous, or too much of an intrusion on your ‘purity’…
I’m not going to pretend that’s a course of (in)action worthy of anything but utter disgust, same as someone who says that the way to win WW2 is to help the Nazis genocide the untermensch. I’m sure as shit not going to asspat you for it. We may be able to work together as-needed in other areas, but I’m never going to pretend that that’s anything but abhorrent.
I don’t know why you keep acting like I’m against voting when that’s all I’ve been supporting this whole thread. I do take the time out of my day to vote, even helping my elderly father who struggles walking get to the polls. I constantly advocate for more people to vote and convince my friends and coworkers to do the same. It’s just that the bubble I fill in (we only have paper tickets here no electric machines I hear other places got) doesn’t have a D or R next to it. The people I talk to are tired of the inaction Dems have shown for decades with many only voting for Conservatives cause they get tricked. I’ve gotten many who voted Trump in 2016 and 2020 to vote for actual progressives in 2024. We always talk about needing to build an actual progressive party and, as anyone will tell you, that starts by actually supporting them at every chance and takes a lot of time to achieve. Over 40k people supported a movement away from the major parties and no Harris would not have won the state had they all voted for her instead (she’d still be over 500k votes short and that’s with 70% of registered voters voting which is pretty close to the 75% figure I see many wish would vote). She’d need basically half of the remaining people to vote for her and I just don’t see a world in that happening after spending time with non-voters.
Against voting for harm reduction. IE, anything that might actually make a difference in the lives of millions.
Yeah, and voting for a third party presidential candidate when the two major parties have been consistently polling at near 50% for the month before the election? Maybe not so fucking helpful.
I mean, very helpful to those who want to see more genocide and oppression of minorities, I guess. But that’s usually not a goal of leftists.
But hey, who cares about the thousands of dead Iranians? Not your problem, right? You have your moral purity to uphold.