• Quacksalber@sh.itjust.works
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        7 days ago

        Voting is the first, the easiest step to shaping politics. If you can’t even do that, I don’t trust you to do anything effective.

        • black_flag@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          7 days ago

          If it’s so easy, then what makes you think people who argue “voting doesn’t matter” aren’t also doing that (we are)? We just don’t care to let electoralists suck all the energy out of people who are willing to take action trying to get some loser elected who’s just gonna betray us all for half a buck anyway.

        • lumpenproletariat@quokk.auOPM
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          7 days ago

          Voting does not solve shit. It is not a solution, it is a placebo. Real reform can only come from revolution, the system cannot change itself.

          • itsralC@lemmy.zip
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            7 days ago

            I suppose you never take painkillers alongside antibiotics? Since only the second one can stop the illness

            • lumpenproletariat@quokk.auOPM
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              7 days ago

              Do you ever see people promoting painkillers as a standalone solution? Because that’s 99% of voters entrenched into their tribe bullshit.

              • copygirl@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                7 days ago

                Could you two three stop talking to the straw man you’ve built of the other side and actually engage with each other?

                • lumpenproletariat@quokk.auOPM
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                  7 days ago

                  Engage with what? Electorialism is not a solution, there is no point engaging in it.

                  Especially when the people who preach “you can vote and revolt” never push the revolt narrative, it’s only that voting that concerns them.

                  • copygirl@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                    7 days ago

                    Engage with the person, not the mental image of what you think they are or represent.
                    To me it looked very much like you were talking past each other.

                    You don’t have to explain your stance to me, I understand it well enough.

    • vapordays@leminal.space
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      7 days ago

      Whether you think voting is any kind of solution or not, people who don’t go to the voting booth are definitely not “the problem” – saying that things are bad because of people who don’t vote in a game of shitty choices is a real misunderstanding of the problem

      • Quacksalber@sh.itjust.works
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        7 days ago

        They are the problem, because right wing sheep are being whipped into a frenzy and driven into the voting booth every election. If you can’t even be bothered to vote against fascists, how am I supposed to take you seriously?

        • Prunebutt@slrpnk.net
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          7 days ago

          If you employ language where you lament people voting and even call them sheep when they don’t adhere to politics you condone worthy, you’re more cynical about elections than OP.

          Why do you complain about people refraining from attending elections if these people made up their minds that it’s inconsequential. That’s hating on the players, not the game.

        • vapordays@leminal.space
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          7 days ago

          You are not voting against Fascists by voting for Democrats. You are voting for delaying hard fascism in favor of a more subtle fascism and setting up a harder fascism for the next Republican administration. That is how it’s worked this whole time, that is the progression of electoral lesser evil politics in this country.

          Reiterated, you don’t understand the systemic problem if you blame virtually powerless voters in this fraudulent “democracy.” If you don’t agree with this, I personally don’t give a shit if you take me “seriously.”

          And you can blame me and other voters/non-voters all you want, but that won’t fix a thing, and not only that, it is pointing a finger at the non-powerful instead of the powerful, the individual instead of the system itself, and in this way you are perpetuating “the problem” more than nonvoters, or people who vote their conscience (like I did for Cornell West, the best option in the recent presidential election). Hey, why didn’t you and everyone else vote for the real lesser evil? The better option than Harris? By your logic, I blame all of you for not having a better Administration and better things. “We didn’t vote for the better candidates because they had no chance.” Yeah, because you didn’t vote for them. After all it is everyone’s choice that they could have made. But see how dumb it is for me to blame you for all the problems today?

          Oh and maybe you should consider blaming the Democrats for being absolute ass and totally captured by corporate interests, and nobody really wanting to vote for them because they suck total ass and are not a serious opposition and have mostly been in league with the Republicans. Why aren’t you blaming the actual powerful?

            • vapordays@leminal.space
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              7 days ago

              I do vote in the primaries and it still doesn’t amount to much, especially considering the most well funded (corporate and welathy backed candidate) almost always win because it’s a name recognition game, and money buys that message into people’s brains for when they get to the booth.

              And guess what, Harris didn’t even have a primary, she was appointed.

              Then there is virtually no method (thru established channels) of public accountability once a politician gets into office. That is why in reality almost all of them succumb to money interests, for the few who didn’t already before getting elected.

              You place way too much faith in the process of capitalist “liberal democracy” which is the shallowest shell of democracy. The architects of the political system are the rich and powerful themselves. It is an elaborate maze designed to keep the ones in power in power. You blame and direct your ire at the wrong people.

    • Ryanmiller70@lemmy.zip
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      7 days ago

      Problem with this is Libs love to control who people vote for. You can’t just vote for your preferred candidate in primaries, you have to vote for the person that can win and everyone has already decided will win otherwise you’re splitting the vote. You have to vote for the chosen D reps in the general otherwise you wasted your time and shouldn’t have gone anyways.

      I vote every chance I get, but I just view it as something to keep me out of the house cause in deep red Missouri, my votes aren’t gonna do a damn thing.