• Buffalox@lemmy.world
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    15 hours ago

    According to a new study by researchers at Carnegie Mellon, MIT, Oxford, and UCLA,

    Study should be solid I guess.

    participants who were given AI assistants (in this case, a chatbot powered by OpenAI’s GPT-5 model) would have the aid pulled from them without warning during the test

    Wow, interesting idea. 👍

    where they had their assistant removed, the AI group saw the solve rate fall off a cliff. They had a solve rate about 20% lower

    And even worse IMO:

    They also had nearly double the skip rate, meaning they simply chose not to solve the questions.

    This seems very alarming IMO, because this indicates they lost some of their ability to think constructively on how to actually solve a problem!

    I know there have always been some who cried wold every time new technology has become available, like calculators and computers. Even dictionaries were once claimed to be harmful once!
    But maybe this time there is a real danger, because AI takes away a lot of the need to actually think creatively and constructively. And that’s an ability we must not lose.

    The last paragraph of the article is even worse. As it mentions 2 studies that show these effects are also long term!!!

      • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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        5 hours ago

        A calculator is not the same problem, it doesn’t reduce our general ability to think critically.

        • derAbsender@piefed.social
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          1 hour ago

          As the study defines critical thinking: yes it does.

          The study claims, essentially, relying on a machine that solves a Problem for you, lessens your critical thinking skills.

          Their Definition of “critical thinking” is just, at least to me, way Off.

          Just because i can conprehend Stuff i read for example, does not show critical thinking. It just shows i can repeat shit i read adequately.

          It’s just bad science.

        • iglou@programming.dev
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          3 hours ago

          The studies referenced are about calculations, reading comprehension and work performance, not critical thinking.

          The article is, like many, a bad one. It generalises what it should not.

          • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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            3 hours ago

            The sessions lasted about 10 minutes, suggesting that those who decided to rely heavily on AI to solve problems for them abandoned their critical thinking abilities in a matter of minutes.

            • iglou@programming.dev
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              2 hours ago

              As I said, this is a bad article. The experiment does not suggest that at all. The study does not mention critical thinking.

              I’d say, however, that the proliferation of shitty news websites has caused readers to lose their critical thinking.

              • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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                1 hour ago

                In academia it is normal not to directly spell out things that are obvious to a person with academic knowledge on the subject, research papers are meant for scholars, and they are supposed to be able to read and understand the consequences for themselves.

                So you can’t use it as an argument that it isn’t spelled out, if it can be easily derived by a person who understands the subject.
                Research papers do not spell out every possible consequence of their findings.

                • iglou@programming.dev
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                  55 minutes ago

                  It isn’t spelled out because it is not a logical conclusion at all. Nothing in this test requires critical thinking to achieve.

                  Why are you defending an obviously terribly written article?

    • FauxLiving@lemmy.world
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      9 hours ago

      This paper shows that a person who has performed a task 12 times performs better than a person who has never performed the same task.

      They also do not properly control for performance loss due to context switching which is a well known contributor to performance loss.

      It’s a paper on arXiv, it hasn’t been peer reviewed or published.

      • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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        5 hours ago

        No the test is not training, that’s a weird thing to claim. The switch is what is tested, and you disregard that 2 other tests have shown similar results. An actual decline in critical and problem solving thinking.

        • iglou@programming.dev
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          3 hours ago

          Not training, no, but warm up. And no, it is not about critical thinking, it’s about reading comprehension and calculations.

        • Womble@piefed.world
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          3 hours ago

          The switch is what is being tested yes, but it is not clear that what is being measured in the switch is “AI fried their brains” rather than “context switching in the middle of a test”. If they wanted to make that point it would be useful to have the maths test run with a calculator group who also got it yanked halfway through, that way we would be able to see what proportion of the effect is over dependence on AI removing critical thinking and what amount is having your methods disrupted mid task.

          • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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            3 hours ago

            The calculator test might be good for comparison, and I’m pretty sure if given the same amount of time, and one group being allowed to use calculator for half the test, that group would solidly outperform a group not using calculators at all.

            I was in 5th grade in 1975, and we were the first class to get calculators in 5th grade. Which became the standard for many years after.
            I have never heard complaints about students being less capable of understanding basic math problems because they use calculators. Although the idea of using calculators in schools were heavily debated. It’s similar to people not getting worse at spelling from using a dictionary.

    • scarabic@lemmy.world
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      12 hours ago

      Changing the terms of the test in the middle of it, without warning, is disruptive. I’m not convinced it “fried their brains.” The same would happen with a calculator suddenly removed during the middle of an exam.

      • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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        5 hours ago

        You are disregarding the last paragraph, where 2 other studies showed similar results, without having the “disruptive” factor.

      • howrar@lemmy.ca
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        10 hours ago

        Or any task change really. You tell me that I’m here for a writing task, then halfway through it becomes a math test? There’s no way I’m doing anywhere near as well as if they told me what was happening ahead of time.

    • Ioughttamow@fedia.io
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      14 hours ago

      When driving somewhere, if I set out with the mindset that I can’t rely on gps I can usually wing it and figure out where to go when a hiccup occurs. If I don’t, then I have a lot of trouble getting into that path finding mode when needed… similar to this maybe?

      • Brave Little Hitachi Wand@feddit.uk
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        14 hours ago

        Yeah exactly, because although it’s possible to do more with technology sometimes, you’re actively de-skilling at the same time. When we invented the written word yes it legitimately made everything better, but also we lost oral traditions and the capacity to memorize large volumes of storytelling, songs, and histories. Now you can burn the books, and the knowledge dies. It’s a real risk.

        Everything is like this. Every technology has a cost beyond its price, and making a decision of whether to use it or not will always be in error unless you think about what you’re losing in the process.

    • Chloé 🥕@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      11 hours ago

      there have always been some who cried wold every time new technology has become available, like calculators and computers

      and they kinda have a point, really. people got worse at memorizing stuff by heart when writing was invented, and people got worse at mental calculus when calculators when invented.

      but they allowed many things that were simply not possible. a calculation that takes me 2 minutes in wolfram alpha could take hours if not days to solve by hand!

      ai, meanwhile, or at least the ai we’re sold, does not offer significant advantages (at best it saves a few minutes), at the cost of making us worse at thinking, a skill that is absolutely essential to have… and of course, that’s the point. the tech oligarchs want us to be dependent on their extremely expensive products.

      • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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        5 hours ago

        and people got worse at mental calculus when calculators when invented.

        That may be true, but that is a much more limited problem, than losing some of our ability for critical thinking and problem solving in general.

        ai, meanwhile, or at least the ai we’re sold, does not offer significant advantages

        This is very true, the AI are shown to even hallucinate, and give incorrect and harmful solutions. A calculator does NOT do that.
        So not only is the AI a danger to our critical thinking, we actually need it MORE when using AI.

      • badgermurphy@lemmy.world
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        10 hours ago

        But they’re using the hell out of it, too, right? They’re exactly the types of people that love and use it the most: managers and owners.

    • NeilNuggetstrong@lemmy.world
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      14 hours ago

      If I use AI for my personal coding projects I’ve found that if the task is unsolvable by the ai model, I’m not able to sit down and do it myself until the next day. It’s like I’ve got to reset my brain.

      If I want to save time and use AI for a specific part of the code, it probably saves me 5 hours of work. But then I spend five hours yelling at the ai to try to get it to actually solve it. Next day I’ll just fix it myself in 2 hours.

      • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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        5 hours ago

        That sounds a lot like what the studies show. And IMO that sounds like a serious problem.

        • NeilNuggetstrong@lemmy.world
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          1 hour ago

          I’m really just tricking my brain to think I’m being more productive lmao.

          But then again, some of the stuff I’m working on is in principle quite easy to do, but is also outside of my skillet, for these cases I benefit from using AI.

          IMO the challenge is knowing how and when to use AI. Small companies using AI correctly can probably benefit massively from it. Although it’s risky

    • redsand@infosec.pub
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      15 hours ago

      Also and this is the big one for me. It’s 10% wrong on average. That’s really bad. 1 in 10 google Gemini answers is bullshit