I dont know how you can be a leftist and not believe people are capable of change.
Of course he’s capable of change, but:
He has not shown the requisite action in my view to warrant my forgiveness. I admit that this will be very hard for him to earn. And I think a lot of leftists and anarchists will agree with me here.
Even if he is capable of change, that does not mean that he should ever be allowed a position of power again. I.e., he may have a position in socialist society, but not a leadership position. He can do something else.
As anarchists, we shouldn’t even be giving our precious finite time and energy to Demonrat monsters. They are an enemy. The only engagement Demonrat politicians deserve from anarchists is unmitigated hostility forever.
Edit: I want to close this comment (thank you to @mathemachristian@hexbear.net for originally posting this image in the thread; it bears repeating!) with Platner’s own words and actions. I hope you can understand why Platner has to do so much more for people to begin to forgive him, if that’s even possible.
I have already addressed that quote before in a different post. There is an interview where he renounces the beliefs he held in that quote. I do not care enough to dig it up, and if you care enough I trust you are capable of fact checking (this is not intended to be rude).
And I dont believe he should hold power either, but more so because I believe no one should. But I’d argue if someone believes he shouldnt win because of his past, then none of his competition deserve to hold power either as they are just as bad in different ways.
As for forgiveness. Thats your own personal choice so I don’t begrudge you not forgiving him. My issue is it feels most people shitting on him have no intention of ever forgiving him no matter what, and care more about ignoring what change he has made in order to paint him in a worse light. Informing people of his past is good, but not also bringing up how he has addressed and changed from that past is dishonest.
There is an interview where he renounces the beliefs he held in that quote.
That’s a good start, but nowhere near enough for someone whose actions were so monstrous.
My issue is it feels most people shitting on him have no intention of ever forgiving him no matter what, and care more about ignoring what change he has made in order to paint him in a worse light.
I actually responded to a comment about forgiveness in anarchist spaces a few hours back. Platner fits the discussion like a glove. Unfortunately, Anarchist Nexus doesn’t let you view comment links without a login, so I’ll just quote myself:
I don’t get why some people excommunicate them for their past actions.
There are definitely a few people on Lemmy who have lost relatives or been personally fucked over by the military. I can 1000% understand why these people are not necessarily ready to forgive veterans, even ones who try to right their wrongs.
Fact of the matter is: they are not owed forgiveness, no matter how hard they try, how much work they put in, how much they sacrifice. It’s that simple. Some people are just not gonna forgive you for your service. For the veterans in the chat, part of your journey has to be to learn to understand and live with this reality, and to work around it as best as you are able.
And just in general: you are never ever ever owed forgiveness, no matter what. Full stop.
Unlike what I said in the quoted comment about the veteran who got beaten up at Delaney Hall, in this case I am not willing to forgive Platner … yet. I am personally leaving open the future possibility of my personal forgiveness … but again, I must push back on the notion that anyone owes him, nor anyone else (myself included!), forgiveness for anything. Continuing,
But that’s my privileged -ass opinion, coming from someone who’s never been personally hurt by veterans, someone who has nothing to even forgive him for. I.e., my view rightly has no bearing on the opinions and analyses of people who have been brutalized by veterans. So if someone else is not ready to forgive this guy, that’s something we just gotta respect.
As I said previously, Platner has a long way to go before I’m ready to forgive him. And it is completely understandable if some of his victims never forgive him at all, even if it is not politically expedient for people living in who care about electoral victories.
Thats fair, and yeah you are right that he is not owed forgiveness. I apologize, I was wrong when I said otherwise. Frankly idk why I said anything to the effect he was owed it, that is my bad.
I don’t disagree with that, but I also do not feel it is antithetical to also believing that people are entitled to forgiveness by everyone.
People should be able to move past their mistakes and able to grow, but that doesnt mean everyone needs to forgive them. The families whose loved ones were killed by Platner do not need to forgive him, and neither do people who wish to stand in solidarity with those families. But that also doesnt mean we have to hold Platner’s past over his head while ignoring what he has done to grow into a different person.
I didnt mean to imply one is entitled to forgiveness, though I doubt many of the people pearl clutching were actually impacted by his actions, particularly when it’s a bunch of hawkish Democrats who would gladly send the military to kill more innocents without a second thought but love trying to find ways to have moral outrage over Platner’s past.
There is some real problematic shit, but he’s saying the right progressive things, which is why the establishment is trying to fling as much shit at him as possible.
Of course he’s capable of change, but:
He has not shown the requisite action in my view to warrant my forgiveness. I admit that this will be very hard for him to earn. And I think a lot of leftists and anarchists will agree with me here.
Even if he is capable of change, that does not mean that he should ever be allowed a position of power again. I.e., he may have a position in socialist society, but not a leadership position. He can do something else.
As anarchists, we shouldn’t even be giving our precious finite time and energy to Demonrat monsters. They are an enemy. The only engagement Demonrat politicians deserve from anarchists is unmitigated hostility forever.
Edit: I want to close this comment (thank you to @mathemachristian@hexbear.net for originally posting this image in the thread; it bears repeating!) with Platner’s own words and actions. I hope you can understand why Platner has to do so much more for people to begin to forgive him, if that’s even possible.
I have already addressed that quote before in a different post. There is an interview where he renounces the beliefs he held in that quote. I do not care enough to dig it up, and if you care enough I trust you are capable of fact checking (this is not intended to be rude).
And I dont believe he should hold power either, but more so because I believe no one should. But I’d argue if someone believes he shouldnt win because of his past, then none of his competition deserve to hold power either as they are just as bad in different ways.
As for forgiveness. Thats your own personal choice so I don’t begrudge you not forgiving him. My issue is it feels most people shitting on him have no intention of ever forgiving him no matter what, and care more about ignoring what change he has made in order to paint him in a worse light. Informing people of his past is good, but not also bringing up how he has addressed and changed from that past is dishonest.
Edit: removed part about owing forgiveness
That’s a good start, but nowhere near enough for someone whose actions were so monstrous.
I actually responded to a comment about forgiveness in anarchist spaces a few hours back. Platner fits the discussion like a glove. Unfortunately, Anarchist Nexus doesn’t let you view comment links without a login, so I’ll just quote myself:
Unlike what I said in the quoted comment about the veteran who got beaten up at Delaney Hall, in this case I am not willing to forgive Platner … yet. I am personally leaving open the future possibility of my personal forgiveness … but again, I must push back on the notion that anyone owes him, nor anyone else (myself included!), forgiveness for anything. Continuing,
As I said previously, Platner has a long way to go before I’m ready to forgive him. And it is completely understandable if some of his victims never forgive him at all, even if it is not politically expedient for people living in
who care about electoral victories.
Thats fair, and yeah you are right that he is not owed forgiveness. I apologize, I was wrong when I said otherwise. Frankly idk why I said anything to the effect he was owed it, that is my bad.
All good 👍
Because unless proven otherwise giving people the ability to grow and change is a good moral thing to do.
I don’t disagree with that, but I also do not feel it is antithetical to also believing that people are entitled to forgiveness by everyone.
People should be able to move past their mistakes and able to grow, but that doesnt mean everyone needs to forgive them. The families whose loved ones were killed by Platner do not need to forgive him, and neither do people who wish to stand in solidarity with those families. But that also doesnt mean we have to hold Platner’s past over his head while ignoring what he has done to grow into a different person.
I didnt mean to imply one is entitled to forgiveness, though I doubt many of the people pearl clutching were actually impacted by his actions, particularly when it’s a bunch of hawkish Democrats who would gladly send the military to kill more innocents without a second thought but love trying to find ways to have moral outrage over Platner’s past.
There is some real problematic shit, but he’s saying the right progressive things, which is why the establishment is trying to fling as much shit at him as possible.
I forgot about his defense of the SS “bolts” https://hexbear.net/post/6500448 lol just scroll through https://hexbear.net/search?q=platner&type=All&listingType=All&page=1&sort=TopAll&titleOnly=true beyond me how anyone can still defend this guy when he is trying to just gloss over his nazi past with some catchphrases
Dudes even got endorsed by Chuck “My job is to keep the left pro-Israel[sic]” Schumer https://hexbear.net/post/8671101 come on now
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