This video is by Eric Hovagim an up and coming Tankie “reporter” and in his video he even unironically leans into China is just doing a “combatting terrorism”, just like the US gov does, amongs other things to justify chinas various human rights abuses.

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  • fonix232@fedia.io
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    9 days ago

    This view is about on par as bad as the propaganda itself.

    Propaganda by definition is something that isn’t true. It might be wholly untrue, or partially untrue, or twist facts in a specific way to evoke an emotional response while staying “technically” true - with the singular goal to smear the opponent, lest actual fact be debated.

    Political debate should always be about debating facts and adopting one’s view to reality, not twisting and churning reality to fit one’s agenda. It has to stay objective and factual for it to be worth anything.

    This is a mistake a lot of people make when it comes to debate. They take facts (often cherry picked, wilfully ignoring aspects that are contrary), draw conclusions, then treat those conclusions as the facts themselves and are unwilling to budge from those conclusions even when presented with further information that proves those conclusions incorrect.

    I have a perfect anecdotal example that happened just a few days ago. A right wing “commentator” published numbers of sexual assault reports in various European countries, comparing early 2000s to 2024-2026. The numbers have obviously increased, and this commentator immediately correlated it with immigration numbers - except for one country, Poland. This is obviously an overly simplified conclusion that disregarded things like reporting guideline changes (which means more cases are treated as sexual assault - e.g. in the early 2000s, an upskirt photo would have you charged with harassment in many countries but today it’s considered sexual assault), the improving trend of reporting itself (meaning women are less afraid to report if they’re assaulted, as police take it more seriously), and also the addition of spousal rape, which 20 years ago wasn’t really codified. The numbers are especially obvious in e.g. the UK, where reporting also includes the offender’s race - and the data clearly shows that each racial group tracked, roughly matches the makeup of the population (e.g. Asians make up ~9.3% of the population and around 8% of reported SA cases are committed by an Asian assailant, or ~82-83% are committed by white people and they make up ~82.9% of the population). If the increase in SA numbers was due to an increase of immigration, these percentages wouldn’t match up.

    But it’s incredibly easy to whip up some frenzy by omitting these supporting facts, and people are generally too lazy to look them up themselves. They see a narrative that resonates with them emotionally and go with it regardless if it’s the reality.

    This is the danger of propaganda. All it does is push people to the extremes and create societal clashes. It doesn’t help political debate, it snuffs it out, and leads to an inability to cooperate.

    Politics at the end of the day should be about cooperation, the ability to solve problems in a way that leaves everyone happy - or, more likely, the least unhappy. But how can you do that when everyone is frothing at the mouth because of propaganda? How can you have an objective debate when everyone is emotionally charged and unwilling to compromise, when the whole thing goes from supporting a view with facts, to supporting a team no matter what? This isn’t sports. Your allegiance isn’t to a team regardless what they do, but to a stance, to an ideology that can be debated - and if your team shifts their ideology to the point it doesn’t fit YOUR ideology, you should be under I obligation to continue supporting them.

    One should only have unfaltering loyalty to a single thing. Truth. Let that be scientific truth, historical truth, or personal truth. Propaganda is contrary to that. Therefore one should combat propaganda, regardless if it’s against their personal beliefs or in support of it. In fact one should be against propaganda especially if it’s supporting their beliefs. Because how can you say, with a clear heart, that you believe in something when you base that belief on lies?

    • edible_funk@sh.itjust.works
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      9 days ago

      Propaganda can absolutely be true, it’s just that purpose of propaganda is to further an agenda, not promote truth.

      • fonix232@fedia.io
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        9 days ago

        Do note that I did say it can be “technically” true.

        But it’s never the whole truth, because the whole truth is often mundane and uninteresting. The purpose of propaganda is to evoke an emotional response that pushes the observer towards supporting the agenda behind it.

        And partial truth, while might be true, isn’t truth. In fact omission of contrary facts IS a lie, making the statement ultimately untrue.

    • Tinidril@midwest.social
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      8 days ago

      Propaganda by definition is something that isn’t true.

      This itself isn’t true. In fact, I’d estimate that more propaganda is true than false. Any information being distributed for the purpose of furthering a cause is propaganda. It’s usually very selective truth meant to give false impressions. That’s generally more effective than outright lies. Of course, some causes can’t survive without lies.

    • Hadriscus@jlai.lu
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      8 days ago

      That’s not the definition of propaganda, no. Propaganda is communication meant to influence. That’s it