They value a laptop that excels at providing value for money, a compact design, battery life, and brand familiarity.
Value for money on what timescale? Most seem to only think about the price vs the functionality a few days after purchase. Longer term, the ability to upgrade and repair components instead of pitching the whole thing would be higher value for money, but that’s not how most consumers think.
A compact design is nice, but not the be-all-end-all if Framework can get in a reasonable size/weight range.
Battery life is an oxymoron here… the main issue I have with laptop battery life is after a few years of use it dwindles, eventually to zero. When the battery isn’t replaceable, or is a proprietary form factor which costs nearly as much as a new laptop - that results in horrible battery life and value for money performance, but does generate new unit sales for non-repairable laptops.
Framework uses batteries that die after a few years (mine turned into a spicy pillow after 25 months). My M1 MacBook Air from 2020 still has 88% battery health according to the OS.
My Framework lasts about 5-7 hours on battery. My MacBook lasts about 15 hours on battery.
Replacing the battery on my Framework cost me about $80. Having Apple replace the battery in my MacBook would cost $160.
Let’s say my MacBook’s battery is about to go bad (it’s not). Battery replacement every 6 years, vs battery replacement every 2-3 years (let’s be generous and say 3 years) with Framework. That means after 6 years, both laptops will just be getting a new battery, and you will have spent $160 on new batteries for each one. Sounds like there’s no benefit to Framework battery-wise.
I have a 1st gen framework 13 and the battery is still at 85% health.
Unfortunately Linux (and Windows) power management kinda sucks in comparison to Apple products so the battery life (especially sleep) is pretty bad in comparison.
I really bought one to support the cause of repairable and upgradable hardware even though there is a cost to that.
That’s good. This was mine two weeks after the warranty expired.
I would be more inclined to give them a pass on maybe a bad batch of cheap batteries if the laptop didn’t have a nearly 40% price premium over competitors. If you’re going to charge a much higher price, I’m going to expect a much better product.
For me, the battery-sucking expansion cards soured the taste for me. I have to leave them all unplugged and plug them in when I need them, which is obnoxious.
My MacBookPro from 2006 (and those of several colleagues) turned their batteries into spicy pillows in under a year. Glad to hear that the “you’re holding it wrong” 5 bars signal strength everywhere you go phone company also has great (self reported) battery health, these days.
There’s the raw cost of the batteries, then there’s the hassle and downtime. If you just love hanging out at the genius bar then having your MacBook serviced is a positive experience for you - enjoy. I’d rather just grab a spare off the shelf and slap it in when I’ve finally had enough of my existing battery being anemic.
I seem to have notebooks thrown at me for free every so often, so often that I haven’t bought one for myself in 20+ years, so what Framework does or doesn’t do is a bit academic for me, but… if Framework makes their batteries generic enough that anybody (competent) with a 3D printer and a soldering iron could make them, you would think that would keep the batteries cheap and readily available.
I’m not sure that there’s any such thing as a “generic laptop battery”. They’re still made to fit one or maybe a handful of models. AFAICT, buying a replacement Framework battery is about the same as buying any other laptop’s replacement battery. I’ve replaced 4 different laptops’ batteries in the past 5 years, and the Framework was the second easiest (after the Thinkpad that you literally just slide the battery out of), but even the most difficult one wasn’t that hard. So as far as hassle, I’d say the worst offender still isn’t that bad.
Thinkpad (unknown model, slide out mechanism, no need to open chassis)
Framework 13 (chassis easy to open, unscrew old battery, screw in new one, easy connector)
Acer Spin 5 (basically the same as the Framework, but you have to pry the chassis a little)
Dell XPS (unknown model, chassis much harder to get into, but once in, basically the same as Framwork and Acer)
There’s 18650s and similar standard cells. Many laptop batteries used to be collections of standard cells back in the day - they could be again.
My complaint about laptop batteries isn’t their ease of replacement (which has been declining over the decades), but rather their cost. That cost is driven in large part by their specific application - they’ve got it, you want it, and there’s little or no supplier competition…
Ah, ok. Well I don’t think Framework has done much in the way of cost. The 13’s battery is listed on their site for $70, so it’s about on par with other battery replacements, if not a bit more expensive.
Yeah, Framework is a bit over a barrel on cost - never going to be able to compete until they get volumes up. It’s an impossible thing: can’t lower prices because volume is too low, can’t increase volume because prices are too high.
Value for money on what timescale? Most seem to only think about the price vs the functionality a few days after purchase. Longer term, the ability to upgrade and repair components instead of pitching the whole thing would be higher value for money, but that’s not how most consumers think.
A compact design is nice, but not the be-all-end-all if Framework can get in a reasonable size/weight range.
Battery life is an oxymoron here… the main issue I have with laptop battery life is after a few years of use it dwindles, eventually to zero. When the battery isn’t replaceable, or is a proprietary form factor which costs nearly as much as a new laptop - that results in horrible battery life and value for money performance, but does generate new unit sales for non-repairable laptops.
Framework uses batteries that die after a few years (mine turned into a spicy pillow after 25 months). My M1 MacBook Air from 2020 still has 88% battery health according to the OS.
My Framework lasts about 5-7 hours on battery. My MacBook lasts about 15 hours on battery.
Replacing the battery on my Framework cost me about $80. Having Apple replace the battery in my MacBook would cost $160.
Let’s say my MacBook’s battery is about to go bad (it’s not). Battery replacement every 6 years, vs battery replacement every 2-3 years (let’s be generous and say 3 years) with Framework. That means after 6 years, both laptops will just be getting a new battery, and you will have spent $160 on new batteries for each one. Sounds like there’s no benefit to Framework battery-wise.
I have a 1st gen framework 13 and the battery is still at 85% health.
Unfortunately Linux (and Windows) power management kinda sucks in comparison to Apple products so the battery life (especially sleep) is pretty bad in comparison.
I really bought one to support the cause of repairable and upgradable hardware even though there is a cost to that.
First gen framework 13 and the battery is still strong for me.
That’s good. This was mine two weeks after the warranty expired.
I would be more inclined to give them a pass on maybe a bad batch of cheap batteries if the laptop didn’t have a nearly 40% price premium over competitors. If you’re going to charge a much higher price, I’m going to expect a much better product.
For me, the battery-sucking expansion cards soured the taste for me. I have to leave them all unplugged and plug them in when I need them, which is obnoxious.
My MacBookPro from 2006 (and those of several colleagues) turned their batteries into spicy pillows in under a year. Glad to hear that the “you’re holding it wrong” 5 bars signal strength everywhere you go phone company also has great (self reported) battery health, these days.
There’s the raw cost of the batteries, then there’s the hassle and downtime. If you just love hanging out at the genius bar then having your MacBook serviced is a positive experience for you - enjoy. I’d rather just grab a spare off the shelf and slap it in when I’ve finally had enough of my existing battery being anemic.
I seem to have notebooks thrown at me for free every so often, so often that I haven’t bought one for myself in 20+ years, so what Framework does or doesn’t do is a bit academic for me, but… if Framework makes their batteries generic enough that anybody (competent) with a 3D printer and a soldering iron could make them, you would think that would keep the batteries cheap and readily available.
I’m not sure that there’s any such thing as a “generic laptop battery”. They’re still made to fit one or maybe a handful of models. AFAICT, buying a replacement Framework battery is about the same as buying any other laptop’s replacement battery. I’ve replaced 4 different laptops’ batteries in the past 5 years, and the Framework was the second easiest (after the Thinkpad that you literally just slide the battery out of), but even the most difficult one wasn’t that hard. So as far as hassle, I’d say the worst offender still isn’t that bad.
Batteries just aren’t that hard to replace.
There’s 18650s and similar standard cells. Many laptop batteries used to be collections of standard cells back in the day - they could be again.
My complaint about laptop batteries isn’t their ease of replacement (which has been declining over the decades), but rather their cost. That cost is driven in large part by their specific application - they’ve got it, you want it, and there’s little or no supplier competition…
Ah, ok. Well I don’t think Framework has done much in the way of cost. The 13’s battery is listed on their site for $70, so it’s about on par with other battery replacements, if not a bit more expensive.
Yeah, Framework is a bit over a barrel on cost - never going to be able to compete until they get volumes up. It’s an impossible thing: can’t lower prices because volume is too low, can’t increase volume because prices are too high.
The touchpad on my late 2015 15" MBP stopped clicking because of a pillow that eventually bent the whole top chassis.
Any battery will pillow up if you run it hot and overcharged 24/7.