Two things I hate about our culture: mononormativity (it’s like heteronormativity, but with monogamy instead of heterosexuality) and platonic amatonormativity (demonizing casual sex and bodily, carnal, and sexual connections in general, and divinizing an almost ascetic mental, psychological, and “spiritual” connection [whatever that may be, everyone defines it as they please], being a consequence of the cultural hegemony of Abrahamic religions (Christianity, Judaism, and Islam)).
Don’t think either heteronormativity or mononormativity is bad. There are expectations of other people and it is OK to always assume a new person is monogamous cis hetero, just because this is the majority.
I guess I’m your polar opposite in that. I think having as intimate and strong a bond as you can with just one other person who returns that in full is one of the most valuable things a person can have in life.
I lost my wife to cancer about a decade back. I’m still in my 40s, so people keep expecting me to find someone else and bringing that up. That’s unthinkable to me. I wasn’t promising to love her and hold her above all others until she died, I was promising it for my life. Me being hers, her being mine, two being one, etc.
It has nothing to do with religion. It has everything to do with love and integrity. If I had a similar relationship with another person now I would see that as invalidating so many things, turning the things that mean the most to me into lies. Every “forever”, “no matter what”, “this life and any after”, “one and only” or any similar thing I ever said would retroactively become lies. All the other things about her being the most important, or coming first, or any other endearment that didn’t specify ongoing and (if possible) eternal would retroactively have contingencies attached that clearly they only count unless that selfish bitch dies of something.
It feels so wrong to both her and anyone I would move on to and such a betrayal of my own personal values that it’s unthinkable to me on the level of cannibalism. When people expect me to move on my revulsion is what I expect it would be if there was a dead person laying there and those people expected me to start eating them.
I didn’t need a cultural hegemony of Abrahamic religions to make me feel that eating the corpse of another human or torturing an infant to death is unthinkably wrong, and it’s the same with this.
First of all, I am very sorry about your wife, I really know what it feels like to lose someone to cancer since I also lost my father to cancer, when I was 11 years old. I wish you strength and health.
I think having as intimate and strong a bond as you can with just one other person who returns that in full is one of the most valuable things a person can have in life.
Now to this, I’m not saying that psychological bonds or intimacy are not important or bad. What I really mean is that people demonize another equally important and good form of intimacy, physical and sexual, and for younger people, experimentation without commitments before a more serious relationship, which even correlates with a greater likelihood of being satisfied in future serious relationships (monogamous or polygamous), and less likelihood of cheating. Although polygamous AND open relationships, I think they are the best, even if on the other hand they are more difficult to have and maintain, because there is evidence that points to the fact that people are less likely to feel dissatisfied with a relationship if they can still experiment with other people.
It feels so wrong to both her and anyone I would move on to and such a betrayal of my own personal values that it’s unthinkable to me on the level of cannibalism. When people expect me to move on my revulsion is what I expect it would be if there was a dead person laying there and those people expected me to start eating them.
This is clearly a false equivalency fallacy. You can’t compare those things. I don’t think that getting another couple is something bad or makes everything you promised to her false. You may not like to do that, and that’s totally respectable, but criminalizing or dehumanizing it is way too much. I think that’s part of letting go, and I’m not trying to minimize your feelings nor the feelings of people that’s living something similar, but telling that it’s a form of self-care and self-healing.
First, I didn’t say I wanted to criminalize people having another relationship if a spouse dies. It seems completely wrong and awful to me, however I understand that not all people are going to hold the same views and values. I can only live by mine to the best of my ability, I don’t try to impose them on others. But yes, me doing that would very literally would make a lot of the things I’ve said in the past lies.
Again, we’re polar opposites on this. I’m not making a false equivalence. I’m trying to explain my level of revulsion on this issue as it’s not something you’d understand. It’s something I find to be completely and absolutely immoral.
It changes the primary focus and most important aspect from the bond of love and dedication between two people, to not having to be lonely and go without fucking someone. It seems base, and degrading to anything that should hold true meaning and value.
I really think it’s a personal thing for your happiness right? You seem happy to carry her memory and knowing that’s exactly what matters to you. If others need someone around, or that you can share the future moments with, then you aren’t lying about it being “forever” if you continue living life, life changes lots of things. Sharing that love with someone is huge, but they also wanted to be with you for it. They can’t be, so if someone finds someone else and they want to walk through life together I’d like to think someone can find that.
Some are happy with the memory, and their values hold that they would never involve another. But others know that they needed each other to get through the good and the bad, and that person isn’t here anymore. They’ll never be the same as the person who is gone, but it doesn’t mean having them in your life is a “failure” or “betrayal”
It definitely does to me. It would very literally make many of the things I said lies. Yes, most humans would consider doing that acceptable and understandable, but that honestly makes it worse to me, not better. It seems like the bulk of humanity values their own personal comfort, the happiness or pleasure of the now, and not being stuck alone more than they value the honesty and integrity of words and promises they made that at the time felt like the most important a thing could be.
It changes the primary focus and most important aspect from the bond of love and dedication between two people, to not having to be lonely and go without fucking someone. It seems base, and degrading to anything that should hold true meaning and value.
Two things I hate about our culture: mononormativity (it’s like heteronormativity, but with monogamy instead of heterosexuality) and platonic amatonormativity (demonizing casual sex and bodily, carnal, and sexual connections in general, and divinizing an almost ascetic mental, psychological, and “spiritual” connection [whatever that may be, everyone defines it as they please], being a consequence of the cultural hegemony of Abrahamic religions (Christianity, Judaism, and Islam)).
Im not sure ive ever seen a post with this much jargon, and the fact that you spend half the time defining jargon in the post is… something
Informative!
Don’t think either heteronormativity or mononormativity is bad. There are expectations of other people and it is OK to always assume a new person is monogamous cis hetero, just because this is the majority.
I guess I’m your polar opposite in that. I think having as intimate and strong a bond as you can with just one other person who returns that in full is one of the most valuable things a person can have in life.
I lost my wife to cancer about a decade back. I’m still in my 40s, so people keep expecting me to find someone else and bringing that up. That’s unthinkable to me. I wasn’t promising to love her and hold her above all others until she died, I was promising it for my life. Me being hers, her being mine, two being one, etc.
It has nothing to do with religion. It has everything to do with love and integrity. If I had a similar relationship with another person now I would see that as invalidating so many things, turning the things that mean the most to me into lies. Every “forever”, “no matter what”, “this life and any after”, “one and only” or any similar thing I ever said would retroactively become lies. All the other things about her being the most important, or coming first, or any other endearment that didn’t specify ongoing and (if possible) eternal would retroactively have contingencies attached that clearly they only count unless that selfish bitch dies of something.
It feels so wrong to both her and anyone I would move on to and such a betrayal of my own personal values that it’s unthinkable to me on the level of cannibalism. When people expect me to move on my revulsion is what I expect it would be if there was a dead person laying there and those people expected me to start eating them.
I didn’t need a cultural hegemony of Abrahamic religions to make me feel that eating the corpse of another human or torturing an infant to death is unthinkably wrong, and it’s the same with this.
First of all, I am very sorry about your wife, I really know what it feels like to lose someone to cancer since I also lost my father to cancer, when I was 11 years old. I wish you strength and health.
Now to this, I’m not saying that psychological bonds or intimacy are not important or bad. What I really mean is that people demonize another equally important and good form of intimacy, physical and sexual, and for younger people, experimentation without commitments before a more serious relationship, which even correlates with a greater likelihood of being satisfied in future serious relationships (monogamous or polygamous), and less likelihood of cheating. Although polygamous AND open relationships, I think they are the best, even if on the other hand they are more difficult to have and maintain, because there is evidence that points to the fact that people are less likely to feel dissatisfied with a relationship if they can still experiment with other people.
This is clearly a false equivalency fallacy. You can’t compare those things. I don’t think that getting another couple is something bad or makes everything you promised to her false. You may not like to do that, and that’s totally respectable, but criminalizing or dehumanizing it is way too much. I think that’s part of letting go, and I’m not trying to minimize your feelings nor the feelings of people that’s living something similar, but telling that it’s a form of self-care and self-healing.
First, I didn’t say I wanted to criminalize people having another relationship if a spouse dies. It seems completely wrong and awful to me, however I understand that not all people are going to hold the same views and values. I can only live by mine to the best of my ability, I don’t try to impose them on others. But yes, me doing that would very literally would make a lot of the things I’ve said in the past lies.
Again, we’re polar opposites on this. I’m not making a false equivalence. I’m trying to explain my level of revulsion on this issue as it’s not something you’d understand. It’s something I find to be completely and absolutely immoral.
It changes the primary focus and most important aspect from the bond of love and dedication between two people, to not having to be lonely and go without fucking someone. It seems base, and degrading to anything that should hold true meaning and value.
I really think it’s a personal thing for your happiness right? You seem happy to carry her memory and knowing that’s exactly what matters to you. If others need someone around, or that you can share the future moments with, then you aren’t lying about it being “forever” if you continue living life, life changes lots of things. Sharing that love with someone is huge, but they also wanted to be with you for it. They can’t be, so if someone finds someone else and they want to walk through life together I’d like to think someone can find that.
Some are happy with the memory, and their values hold that they would never involve another. But others know that they needed each other to get through the good and the bad, and that person isn’t here anymore. They’ll never be the same as the person who is gone, but it doesn’t mean having them in your life is a “failure” or “betrayal”
It definitely does to me. It would very literally make many of the things I said lies. Yes, most humans would consider doing that acceptable and understandable, but that honestly makes it worse to me, not better. It seems like the bulk of humanity values their own personal comfort, the happiness or pleasure of the now, and not being stuck alone more than they value the honesty and integrity of words and promises they made that at the time felt like the most important a thing could be.
It changes the primary focus and most important aspect from the bond of love and dedication between two people, to not having to be lonely and go without fucking someone. It seems base, and degrading to anything that should hold true meaning and value.