Feddit.org announced today that they are changing their rules to match German law despite their server not being hosted in Germany.
Feddit.org now bans
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The sentence “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free”
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Comparing Israel to the Nazis
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Calls to end Zionism
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Calling for the dissolution of Israel
And much more. The full original post can be found here, or
Click here for full text of original post:
Hi.
In the past few days, discontent regarding mod decisions in this community has been brewing, particularly when it comes to comments on Palestine, Israel, and Israeli politics and actions. There are also misunderstandings regarding mod intention and German law. We hope to clear that up with this post.
While the servers of feddit.org are in Austria, most of the mods of this community as well as admins of this server live in Germany. Speaking of, our server admins have also posted a write-up on the same topic.
And with that, let’s go:
In Germany, antisemitism is specifically sanctioned in German criminal law, both for speech and as a motivation for other criminal behavior. In addition, Germany seeks to protect the Jewish state of Israel (the so-called “Reason of State” introduced in 2008) and thus verges toward protecting Zionism as well. Certain criticism of Israel/Israelis is also categorized as “Israel-related antisemitism”.
Since criminal law is involved, enforcement can mean things like police raids and device confiscations. After such police action, it does not really matter if it was appropriate or if cases are dropped or never charged: The damage is done. All told, it’s not that fun.
There is also no point in engaging in discussions about the veracity of statements that could get us into legal trouble. In addition, we believe that you can express most opinions without breaking rules.
If your comment contains the following, it will be removed from this community:
- Calling for the dissolution of Israel, or calling for a one-state solution without specifying equal rights for all people; Jewish in particular.
- Calling for a destruction, annihilation, an end of all Zionism or the like.
- Equating Israeli actions and (historical) Nazism.
- The slogan “from the river…”
- Endorsement of or justifications for Hamas or Hezbollah, or slogans or graphics positively referring to these organizations. These are considered terrorist organizations in Germany.
- … and obviously: Any of the common antisemitic tropes or calls to violence against Jews or Israelis
Comments will not be removed for the following:
- Denouncing genocide.
- Denouncing Israeli war crimes.
- Criticizing Zionism as an ideology or political movement.
- Referring to the current Israeli government as “criminal,” “expansionist,” or “far-right”.
If your comment is removed nonetheless, these are not the reason. I’d also like to stress that this community was never a free-speech-absolutist zone: It is a (usually lightly) moderated community. There may also be times when bans go too far. In such cases, please DM the @EuroMod@feddit.org account (which all mods have access to).
To help you understand why, I'll leave an assortment of sources here (translations via DeepL).
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Berlin in mid-May [2024] around 6 o’clock in the morning. A loud, continuous “banging” against the apartment door wakes student Alina T. from her sleep. […] When her husband opens the door, several LKA officers, two employees of the district office and the SEK “storm” past him into the apartment. Puzzled, he looks at the search warrant. […] The background to this was a Facebook entry in the student’s profile: "From the river […]
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In November 2023, the Federal Ministry of the Interior and for Home Affairs also issued a prohibition order against Hamas.[60] According to the order, “the slogan ‘From the River to the Sea’ (in German or other languages)” is a distinguishing mark of Hamas[61]. […] the current legal situation [regarding “Denial of Israel’s right to exist”] is - contrary to what the statements of the Federal Ministry of Justice suggest[63] - anything but clear. Whether incitements to eliminate the State of Israel are prosecuted depends on the respective legal opinion and the prosecution will of the respective public prosecutor’s office.
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Press release from the previous government:
In this context, Section 111 StGB, which covers public incitement to commit crimes, may also be relevant. Incitement to extinguish Israel’s existence by force may be punishable under this provision. The same applies to calls to publicly display the Hamas flag. If Hamas attacks are publicly cheered and celebrated, this may also be punishable. This means that people who cheer on Hamas’s actions or publicly express their sympathy with the attacks may constitute the criminal offence of “approval of criminal acts” under Section 140 of the German Criminal Code (StGB).
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In connection with the controversial Palestine Congress in Berlin, the German authorities have also imposed an entry ban on former Greek finance minister Yanis Varoufakis. “In order to prevent antisemitic and anti-Israel propaganda at the event”, several entry bans have been issued, the news agency AFP learned from security sources on Sunday. One of these concerned Varoufakis. (Notably, Varoufakis would have spoken about one-state solutions …)
federal reverse (on behalf of the mods of !europe)
Germany has a very binary view on class supremacism. It’s not supremacism is good vs bad. It’s a pendulum of who is above criticism. Russophobic nazi supremacism still kosher though.
Not for nothing but Russia kinda deserves the current ire.
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Well to a tankie Ukrainians are not real people snd deservt it
Palestine is a good talking point to highlight the westoid genocide tendencies.
This the results you get when you shilling ideological shite instead of common sense
Trust a dronie to start whining about Russia and “tankies” in a thread about the genocide of Gaza.
Trust a “dronie” to protect their homeland!
fuck the banderites
fuck the pissraelis
fuck fascists of whatever countryRemoved by mod
“Protecting your homeland” by whining about Russia and “tankies” in a thread about the genocide of Gaza.
You’re the one protecting an eastern equivalent to Israel…
Edit: love that I got under your skin asshole.
I love that you’re banned for your comments, let me carry that feeling forward by user blocking you. bu-bye now.
???
least incoherent dronie.
So you’re a fan of the incursion into Ukraine? Good to know where you stand.
Yep if you have Russian blood in you you’re guilty of all crimes of its government, even if you’re against Putin.
You’re so cool and not at all xenophobic.
I want you to take notice and how I said “Russia” not “Russians”. The state aren’t the individual people. But good job with following the hive mind. So proud of you.
The hivemind of “I don’t think everyone in Russia is inherently guilty of all crimes by Putin?”
Alright let’s just arrest everyone Russian. They’re all guilty.
You are making shit up lol
Also, many Russians support what Russia is doing in Ukraine the same way majority of Israeli Jews support the genocide…
But have you thought about the population doing he oppression mate
🤡
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Bro, again. You’re acting like the person insulting me, assumed I was. Please grab some nuance. The individual citizens are not as a whole responsible for state actions. Despite it the majority of the populace is in favor, you cannot blame them as a whole.
But why do that when we can do collective punishment, which is done by Russia, Israel, North Korea, and all the famous Good Nations?
I’m sure a non-zero amount support it, but it’s like thinking that everyone in America is guilty of the invasion of Iraq.
If there is a Israel citizen who is against the Genocide, I don’t want them considered guilty. I think they should be doing as much as they can against it, and being neutral to it is complicity. But if they’re against the genocide, they aren’t guilty.
I’m also unsure of the rates of support for the War on Ukraine in Russia, but I doubt it’s 100%. Even if it’s 99%, that 1% can’t be considered guilty as charged for.
I don’t consider think that being a citizen of a nation instantly makes you guilty. But I also acknowledge that they can benefit from how their nation acts on the world stage.
My nation benefited from the Iraq invasion, but I was 6 years old when we did it. I didn’t even know what war really was then.
Thank you one sane, non-kneejerk response. I appreciate you.
And for the late hivemind, I got a comment history full of not being a prick like the dude that responded to me.
Russophobic nazi supremacism still kosher though.
I’ve noticed that pro-Israel Germans are usually not that much against Russia.
Not from what I’ve seen at all. The people who insist on calling Palestinians (and any Arab people who oppose Zionism) “terrorists” are often the same people frothing at the mouth about how we have to smash the Russian “orcs.” Granted, this isn’t limited only to Germans, but I’ve definitely seen it specifically from them as well.
Worse is better. You need to have all sorts of delusions existent in the society, for the immunity to be preserved.
Honestly I’ve had different experience, too much Russia-sympathy from Germans. But maybe that just came out of fashion.
Tbh, I can understand it. There have been police raids kicking in doors of families with small children at 5 in the morning for having a Facebook post saying “from the … to the …” (I am also in Germany…). The police went through all of the families belongings and took all web-connected electronics.
The situation is really rough here in Germany.
germans supporting a genocide, why am i not surprised
also defending facism at every turn
akshually they’re just complying to law 🤓
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Oh shit, the (White) Power Rankings heating up as feddit takes up an unexpected lead against stormfront.world
They’re going to stand behind the German law on this? smdh
Germans and being complicit because they are “just following laws/orders”. Name a better duo.
I wonder if “Jews and non-Jews can’t live together, and thus Jews must be exiled to Israel” will be allowed…
thank you
So they’re joining the Nazis. They can fuck off and die.
weren’t the na*is litterally against that group of people?
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No, Christians were against the Jews. The nazis just took advantage of that hate. If you think that the nazis somehow had legitimate complaints against Jews or that those complaints were required to be in anyway accurate, then you have completely misunderstood the history of the last 100 years.
Oh, I see it now! I was looking at it the wrong anglw
no they supported israel since they promised to help with “the jewish question” by resettling them.
The nazis hate jews and israel took advantage of that to get more bodies to settle their frontier. Notably they even helped the nazis circumvent a boycott going on at the time to achieve this.
ah hell yeah found the book
https://archive.org/details/zionist-relations-with-nazi-germany
Sometimes joining the bad side is the only way not to die. I wish you strength to do the right thing (and a family in a far away safe place) when you’re in such situation.
I promise you, the feddit mods are not going to die if they don’t ban criticism of Israel. Seriously, have some perspective.
I was reacting to an extreme comment, as you can see above.
It was extreme, but I don’t think it changes the fact that the feddit mods aren’t really facing serious consequences for not doing this.
I used a hyperbole to fight a hyperbole.
Oh man. Come on Lemmy.
Maybe read the post again and put yourself in the shoes of the admins and mods who do live in Germany.
Each of you personally has your own views on the Israel / Palestine genocide, and that’s absolutely fine.
However, very few of you risk personal criminal prosecution in support of Palestine. The people involved in hosting a lemmy instance are volunteers, who probably didn’t sign up for that kind of risk.
Also, the very nature of federation means that feddit can restrict this content on their servers confident in the knowledge that other servers can host this content in a jurisdiction that doesn’t have the same risks.
My country is literally arbitrarily detaining and deporting/imprisoning people for advocating for a free Palestine. I still go to protests.
Free Palestine, from the river to the sea!
Maybe read the post again and put yourself in the shoes of the admins and mods who do live in Germany.
Man sucks to be them. Oh well, better preemptively censor all words because its illegal! Don’t stand for what’s right!
Why are you on an anarchist instance if you are for states limiting speech?
What’s next? Put yourself in the shoes of the soldiers firing upon unarmed people?
Also, the genocide is immoral, inhumane, and needs to stop. I don’t know any other personal view that can be “absolutely fine”
Well, I guess you could put yourself in the shoes of soldiers if that floats your boat but it’s obviously not analogous to lemmy admins.
As I said, foregoing the personal risk doesn’t harm Palestinians in any way. You’re free to bemoan genocide on pretty much any other instance.
Feddit.Org has no business hosting pan EU subs. German law is designed to prevent proepr discussion on the topic and bootlickers love it like that
Are you saying that because you genuinely believe your statement isn’t an instance of the slippery slope fallacy, or because you want to insult me?
Maybe read the post again and put yourself in the shoes of the admins and mods who do live in Germany.
If I was one of the admins who lived in Germany, I would just step down; not capitulating to genocidal fascists is more important than getting to run my own little digital fiefdom.
Comments will not be removed for the following:
- Denouncing genocide.
- Denouncing Israeli war crimes.
- Criticizing Zionism as an ideology or political movement.
- Referring to the current Israeli government as “criminal,” “expansionist,” or “far-right”.
Y’all grabbed your pitchforks before you even got to that part, didn’t you?
What, you’re scared of getting harrassed by your government for wrongthink on your hobby project? You sir are the actual fascist! We’ll defederate! Can’t let any of those instance users access ours. 🤡
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You can criticize Zionism as an ideology, but you can’t call for its end.
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You can refer to the current Israeli government as “criminal,” but you can’t call for the dissolution of the state of Israel as it currently exists.
You see the problem, surely?
Ummm… Take it up with Germany?
Germany doesn’t have jurisdiction on servers hosted in Austria. This “German law” defense doesn’t make the remotest amount of sense.
Germany is doing plenty of extra-judicial repression of pro-Palestine activism. Jurisdiction doesn’t matter.
These laws are AFAIK in Austria similar to those in Germany, and Austrian police will share the contact details of those responsible for publication who happen to be people living in Germany. The server location alone is not the only criteria.
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You can’t call for the end of israel, a state started by ethnically cleansing the Palestinians and stealing their land. You don’t realize why thats a problem?
Take it up with Germany, the country in which they live.
You know what? I’m gonna pro Palestine even harder
German Guilt Pride is a hell of a drug. Hiding behind ‘laws’ to justify this is also very on brand.
Guilt Pride
Thank you for this term.
ive got temp banned from there for mentioning europe engages in colonialism.
havent participated a lot in there since.
Caught a perma ban there for calling german oligarchs being heavy on Nazi nepo babies
That server has censorship that’s more clown than lemmy.world.
German regime front on Lemmy… Lol
People should vote with their feet.
These clowns should not host pan EU communities, let them circle jerk Zionism in an echo chamber 🤡
Yikes. 😬
