Source https://lemmy.zip/post/72029200/29026430
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So one of your premises for making the fediverse better is to remove the parts you don’t like / don’t agree with?
Can you not just scroll past?
Some would suggest that silencing / censoring your opposition is quite a tankie thing to do…
Edit: Judging by the repliers I’ve chatted to some people really seem to care a lot about this. I gotta admire your passion… whilst still having a different opinion.
Let’s make an instance for Nazis, then, while we’re at it. Otherwise we aren’t tolerant enough /s
They could call it something like @nazi.bar
@ReichHereReichNow
Isn’t that just sh.itjust.works?
By Nazi I’m assuming you mean fascist and then I saw the word “tolerant” and almost couldn’t reply.
My level of Nazi tolerance varies greatly; I’ll tell you why: words should be countered by words, direct action should be countered by direct action.
Does driving things underground have a history of eradicating said thing?
I would prefer to confront / convert a fascist before they make a move then to have to kill one after they made their move.
You however might be more blase about ending human lives than me, granted.
Words to be countered with words only when a person speaks in a good faith and is ready to listen. Thats almost never the case in the internet, unless you are in some low pop group chat where people value your personal opinion. Thats not a lemmy format, we are too numerous. I’m basically nobody to you, why my opinion even matters?
.ml is not speaking in a good faith, in fact they ban opposing opinions. Its red fash propaganda platform. Block is the way.
Nobody is “nobody” to me.
Sorry, but that’s just how I roll, baby.
Well, the tankie instances very loudly advocate in defense of a terrorist state that is in fact attempting to end my life and life of every person in my country. Is that direct enough for you or am I not passing your purity test?
All valid… but surely you understand that some people just randomly go with the first instance they find?
I’m all for people personally curating feeds.
Not sure about purity tests, or really what that means here - I’m just giving an opinion. I’d be horrified if everybody else agreed with me…
If you walk into a nazi bar unknowingly thats fine. You can even go back a few times and most wouldn’t think twice about it. But if someone asks you why your frequenting the nazi bar and their response is anything other then “I didn’t know its a nazi bar.” Followed promptly by them leaving that bar then they are infact also a nazi.
It can take a while before someone starts to notice a pattern in a group as large as a lemmy instance. Took me almost a month before i started to notice the pattern of every bad faith actor and asshole seemed to be coming from .ml over and over again.
.ml is just a “nazi bar” of lemmy. Just not literal nazis.
Hence this community, to give people more information on tankie instances.
Honestly, if I was on .ml and had already subscribed to the comms I wanted I’m not sure I’d bother to migrate… and slowly things would get quieter and quieter until I quit and told everybody I know, who’s tech literate, that the fediverse is dying.
god it’s a shame that there isn’t a community that could help someone in that situation. maybe somewhere tankie bullshit could be called out and put on blast.
oh wait!
The only thing I disagree with is the active push to defederate / total block list an instance based on the incorrect assumption that every single member can, at will, transmute into a homogenous extremist totalitarian hydra.
Do you know the English phrase: could not see the wood for the trees?
I don’t know, if I was on .ml and saw links to posts where the instance’s admins and mods are saying that killing people like me is a good idea, I would “bother to migrate”. And then I would tell everybody I know, who cares to listen, that the fediverse isn’t limited to a handful of fascist in red coats.
ml has a sign up form last I checked. It isn’t just a click the first thing you see situation.
When I first encountered .ml’s instance I actually wondered why the Republic of Mali had such a strong presence in the fediverse.
I’m a bellend - that was for someone else.
I started on .world cause it was the first in the list of instances on the app i downloaded. I only moved cause they started blocking vpns and doing other stupid shit.
Took me a good soild month before i even noticed .ml was the unifying factor between all the idiots i kept seeing.
Yes driving “opinions” underground has a great track record of lessening their impact, especially when they aren’t true.
Look the world is complex, hitler didn’t kill a single person himself but his words certainly lead to death.
A lie travels way faster than the truth, we know for a fact that the more acceptable hate speech becomes the more likely real life violence will become.
So words lead to concentration camps in the US and now where is the action against the action that you speak of?
Lefties always make tge stake of believing rightwingers are completely sincere when they speak when in fact they don’t really care about the truth and entertaining them often serves only one purpose, getting their message out there.
I
“Silencing / censoring” by asking that people merely block the propaganda instance via their personal block lists?
Yeah, that’s fine - but this just seems a bit like brigading.
If a person makes their own mind up, one way or another, good for them.
The post is evidence to help them make their mind up. It’s not like the OP can block anyone for that person.
Yeah, whilst trying to paint an entire instance broadly with a single brush…
I pop over to .ml for a few communities most days - never discussed anything political whilst there and had a jolly time.
My fediverse experience would be lessened via a blanket defederation / instance blocking.
When their admins routinely push propaganda, ban users and delete content just based on their political disagreements and contrary to their own written rules (as thoroughly documented in this very community), it’s much closer to the kind of thing you led with in your comment here. It wouldn’t be excessive to want to stay away from the whole instance based on that.
Yeah, I get all that. But it’s opinion… I prefer to hear what everybody has to say, evaluate the source and then process what is said - and possibly why.
I get other people are different and just want to mute etc, nay bother.
I just don’t like people actively calling for a boycott. If you’re a functioning adult, pop over, have a look, maybe keep your mouth shut until you get the feel of the instance - and then make a decision…
it just seems a bit pitch forks and lanterns against the Bwci under the bridge.
(Plus it seems a bit weird to try and drive a wedge and foster resentment against where the devs of Lemmy be.)
The devs of lemmy are a bunch of racist twats… If your sucking up to the devs just because they are the devs then your just excusing hate speak because of hero worship.
Which in and of it self is extremely problematic. You may want to step back and think twice on why you hold that opinion.
If we can boycott Israel and totalitarian regimes and amoral corporations, we can boycott lemmy.ml
We can also boycott the US… whilst still talking to its citizens.
You will get no one to like .ml here. Don’t waste your effort.
Don’t want them to like it, just acknowledge the possibility that it is a collection of individual humans that vary greatly in view rather than a single entity. Being on .ml shouldn’t automatically preclude you from being part of a bigger thing.
Apparently nuance is dead and everything is black and white, the gray scale has disappeared?
You are always free to walk out of the nazi bar if you don’t like being called a nazi. Nothing is stopping you from joining a different instance. Theres hundreds of them after all.
Go join a LGBTQ furry instance and no ones going to think your a tankie at first glance.
Literally this, yes.
This is the fediverse where you can disassociate yourself from toxic assholes. It’s not like someone is being offed or put in prison for their opinions irl. Plus they have their own spaces. It is more like excluding authoritarians from an org or a party and telling them to associate themselves with like minded individuals.
No one has to be forced to tolerate toxicity.