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Remember “help us get Biden elected and we’ll help push him left?”
Voting is incompatible, because Liberals will just vote and then go back to brunch of their candidate wins.
It’s also incompatible with basic human decency to vote for a candidate who’s shown they’re happy to support an ongoing genocide.
the problem you’re pointing at is liberalism, telling liberals not to vote is not going to make them less liberal.
because of your electoral system not voting is equivalent to voting for the winner, because there isn’t a quorum at which an election is invalidated. take france: a 2-round system is not perfect but allows for genuine voting for small very left-aligned parties, and then eventually voting defensively later
your description of “basic human decency” is also very dishonest in my opinion: between bombing gaza and bombing gaza+venezuela+iran you can easily pick the lesser evil. while people in gaza see no difference (which is also arguable), two other countries, and people there, definitely do
i’m not arguing that using the master’s tools will free us from masters, more must happen (france has many examples, again…), but it seems very clear to me that not using a tool to make a point is virtue signaling towards either peers (who are already aligned with you anyway) or opponents (who don’t care)
btw i’d love to hear how this is “imperialist propaganda” and hear an opinion regarding actually addressing imperialism which is beyond “both bad” because last US low vote turnout didn’t really seem to hurt the empire, or reduce the dropped bombs. there’s always more proletariat than bourgeoisie so act like that
You’re really desperate for brunch huh
your description of “basic human decency” is also very dishonest in my opinion: between bombing gaza and bombing gaza+venezuela+iran you can easily pick the lesser evil. while people in gaza see no difference (which is also arguable), two other countries, and people there, definitely do
Your idea of basic human decency is to write off Palestinians as doomed no matter what, so might as well just vote to only genocide them?
Venezuela has been under siege before Trump ever took step into office, Iran is a thing both parties agree on. After all, Kamala Harris said that Iran is their greatest threat. Democrats were also itching to bomb Iran.
both bad amirite
if “both sides” genocide palestine, voting or not changes nothing for palestinians, right? so go block a station or something and then cast the ballot
also who do you think put kamala there? vote at primaries too
once again, you’re pushing a false dichotomy
kamala wasn’t nominated in the primary.
if “both sides” genocide palestine, voting or not changes nothing for palestinians, right? so go block a station or something and then cast the ballot
I’m not an Amerikan. Your voting enables genocide and you justify that by writing off Palestinians.
also who do you think put kamala there?
There wasn’t even a primary for her lol
Engaging with the theater benefits media companies (a.k.a. those in power). They make fat cash from the spectacle.
watch less tv, support local news networks. you know, part of the “communal help” you propose as an alternative
reminder this is a false dichotomy
You want me to support the local bourgeoise who feed people regurgigated cia material? How about no, class traitor.
what? who said bourgeoisie? do you not have community run outlets? it seems to me you need to go outside and see what other comrades are up to
Engaging with the theater benefits media companies (a.k.a. those in power). They make fat cash from the spectacle.
That’s what you’re trying to distract from.
this is bait, i swear you can turn off the tv and log off. as far as i know voting in the US does not include mandatory watching of state propaganda and cheering for the leader.
i fully endorse disengaging from propaganda machines, turns out telling folks that nothing makes a difference anyway is propaganda (“climate doomerism” may be an interesting and related read)
I vote for the least evil party, which is never either of these assholes. I advocate for doing that and taking violent actions at every given opportunity, especially if these fuckeits are brave enough to show their faces in public.
This is not an either or scenario dummies
Voting is for suckers! Totally don’t do it. Both sides same. Democrats are every bit as bad as Trump. They’re in the Epstein files and they tore down the White House, oh wait.
I would like to vote for the party that tore down the white house. Which one was it?
They’re in the Epstein files
Yes
they tore down the White House
waow
JDPON DON
Did the image get deleted?
The image is still there, but it’s somehow only visible on lemmy.ml
You can see it by clicking on the fediverse symbol (the rainbow pentagon star)
to all the dem voters: look at what they said how they would help the palestinians and then look at what they did. They don’t view you any different.
then look at what they did
the trail of tears prove how little they actually look at what they did – they just shrug and go along w it.
Not voting is always the worst option. Anyone that tries to convince you not to vote is on the side of evil.
Anyone who tries to get you to vote for genociders is evil, actually
Not necessarily. If the ‘not voting’ creates awareness on issues and inspires action, then it can be good. It would be on what it is for and what its effects are.
Generally, voting may be good. But if 3rd parties you like to vote for are not allowed or face structural impediments, then if you use not voting as awareness for it, it being good or bad would be on the effects, right?
this is the only good argument against voting in this thread honestly, it’s a shame it’s somewhat low, thanks for your input
i don’t think not voting creates enough awareness at such scale. HK was a great example of protest abstention, but the main difference IMO is the dimensions: HK being somewhat geographically small compared to a whole country allows for efficient grassroots protests. coordinating such an effort at state level is incredibly ambitious to me, and as long as US folks keep bowing to their state i find it unthinkable that they could organize so properly and so swiftly to make not voting an efficient political action. thus i think defensive voting is better than not voting at all. i’ll be more prone to protest abstention once either the US starts burning stuff for real (france is a good example) or the US empire fragments enough to be “local”. rolling over and letting things be just allows the state to consolidate power, only strengthening the empire
Actually genocide is the worst option. Anyone who tries to get you to help with genocide is a nazi.
the side of evil
God, you’re a child. Is it any wonder the “free” world is rapidly nazifying when the average level of thought is “good guys vs bad guys”?
Is this a plot for a superhero movie?
The superhero is called “Voteman” ofc
He commits voter fraud by casting lots of votes
He votes the nonvoters away
fraud does happen, but it’s greatly overshadowed by voter suppression and disenfranchisement.
voting lesser evil is being on the side of evil
Sorry if you’re allergic to facts
Its literally in the name. Anyway what “facts” did you have in mind? That Biden carried out more deportations than Trump 1?
In April 1963, MLK Jr. writes a letter while in jail.
I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to ‘order’ than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice
Okay, not touching on my opinion on this argument. It’s hilarious that you’re quoting the man who fought for his right to vote, and voting’s power to convince people not to vote.
Pretty sure MLK Jr. cared more about the power of the vote for the right party organization, not just vote blue no matter who shit. VBNM is literally the problem he is describing in that quote, and you act out the smug moderate precisely.
He was socialistic, yes didn’t believe in party alignment, and yet even though he disagreed with them, and was critical of, he most likely voted JFK and confirmed his vote for Johnson the oogaboogey blue candidates.
But that’s not what I was speaking on, and he was not speaking on blind party alignment in that quote, he is literally just calling out moderates. Rightly so, he still voted for them tho. ^
not touching on my opinion on this argument.
What a shame. I’m sure we’d get a real banger out of the person defending genocide abroad and throwing trans kids under the bus at home as reasonable prices to pay to be able to go back to brunch in peace.
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My personal neolib figure I give a vote to is Pritzker, who has signed legislation that made my changing my identification markers a 5 minute visit to the DMV, removed medical sign off for gender change on birth certificate, signed trans protections in healthcare, mandate transgender history to our state school curriculum, and hasn’t thrown us under the bus (publicly) yet, like Newsom (actually called Newsom and other Democrats out for doing so). That’s who I will be voting for in the primaries if they run.
Yes he’s a billionaire. one of the enemies. Yes he wants a two state solution. But he at least is critical about Israel despite being Jewish himself and having received AIPAC funding no doubt. No, I’m not happy about these things, but on paper he’s not stupid enough to play centrist, like Newsom. Yea, swinging even more conservative will completely forfeit the election to the party he has called out for being the Nazis (he denies this now, but he has done it multiple times). So maybe it’s all talk.
i’m actually trans, you telling me my vote doesn’t matter regarding today’s issues is like telling the people King spoke to that they shouldn’t fight for the vote because they are just seeking to participate in the rich white man’s game. Few protected rights I have in my state are because the evil neoliberal signed them into legislature. I can go get SRS if I wanted it and it is required for my Medicaid to cover it. How is this throwing trans people under the bus?
I know fighting on this frontier may seem foolish to you. I know Pritzker is a billionaire politician giving a ton of lip service.
I even consider the very possible reality that he may be saying these things because Dems have already locked in Newsom as the golden boy, and it doesn’t matter what Pritzker says because he’s just gonna run in the primaries to give the DNC the illusion of choice before he concedes to Newsom at the last minute, so it doesn’t matter what he says. (This is what I believe is likely happening).
But, while I try and help my community locally where I can, (I’m disabled there’s not much but I try), I can afford to toss a stone in the direction that tells me it might bring some positivity, even if meaningful change doesn’t happen, because letting JD Vance win is so so so much worse.
Yeah this sucks, but it’s what reasonable people are forced to do in this fucked up society.
“fuck you, got mine”
Go back to reddit
Boom gottem
Go back to reddit
See, you’re already turning into a Shapiro
What facts?
Gavin Newsom repealing a trans care bill? Throwing them under the bus? Being bloodthirsty warmongers? How is this not on the side of evil??
But they’re very civil about their evil. The other guys will come right out and say the slurs in public instead of keeping them in the back rooms where the deals get made like JFK intended.
Bruh lesser evil. Is in the name, it’s evil.
Is genocide not evil?
lesser evil isn’t evil for you because it only affects marginalized people. White people get to finally have brunch
lol you have to pay thousands of dollars to get basic healthcare. shut the fuck up you haven’t achieved a singled victory for the working class in almost a century. facts.
Same image but the one with the hat is also wearing the dress
slop
^ a self referential comment
