Theyve been spying for 15 years. They can control you too. Why do you think they wanted electric steering and to get rid of throttle cables and “safe” automatic braking? Control. They can lock your doors and drive you anywhere, they can slam on your brakes as a semi truck is behind you if they deem you a threat to dear Leader.
The power they have now to get rid of undesireables , and sweep it all under the rug is a fascists dream.
Lighter and more reliable than hydraulic powered steering
and to get rid of throttle cables
drive by wire is more reliable and saves fuel
and “safe” automatic braking? Control. They can lock your doors and drive you anywhere, they can slam on your brakes as a semi truck is behind you if they deem you a threat to dear Leader.
Alright man, youre clearly blind to what’s actually happening. Have fun driving your camera infested rolling spyware thats only dealer repairable.
Electric steering isnt actually better. They fail out of the blue and are unrepairable.
Show me how much fucking fuel drive by wire saves over a cable. .00001 gallon? Fuck off. You can still have a tps with a cable by the way which I doubt you know because have you ever picked up a wrench? I have doubts.
Neither of those stop the function of power steering and are easily repairable. Electrics fail and there is no repair other than a $5000 replacement.
You clearly have never wrenched so you may as we be quiet about topics you dont know. Also youre probably older than me 😅 i just have a lot more mechanic experience than most.
If the accessory belt fails to spin your power steering pump, it isn’t going to pump. Be it a failed belt (which will also impact the alternator and AC compressor) or a seized bearing or whatever else. No pumping, no pressure. No pressure, no power steering. And a sufficient leak, without regular topping up, will eventually allow air into the system. Which, again, means no pressure and no power steering.
How easily (and costly) it’s repaired depends entirely on the nature of the failure. A belt might only set you back $15 to $25 USD and be doable with a cheap socket set and a breaker bar that reaches the tensioner (if you’ve got an automatic tensioner). A bearing might only be $7 but how many people already have the puller and press? Removing and replacing a failed pump? For my old truck the OEM part is discontinued. We’re starting at $80 (remanufactured) going up to around $200 new aftermarket with a reservoir and pulley. And I’ve the luxury of a spacious engine bay and longitudinally mounted engine. Good luck to anyone with a small car and transverse mounted engine; taking off a wheel, popping clips, removing skirting and wheel well plastics… “Easy” becomes relative mighty quick.
I haven’t worked a day in my life as a mechanic (not even small engine) that wasn’t for myself or friends and family, and I still know enough to say you’re either wrong or incomplete in your claims.
They stated slipping belts and a leak. A PS pump still works with those. A serp belt replacement is the easiest possible thing to do on a car besides plugs. Electric? Youre shit out of luck. $3000 down the drain minimum for electric.
I’m just saying the push for electric steering was so they can control your car easier under the guise of safety. Its not an improvement for the end user.
I saw what was written. I stated when/how it wouldn’t work (and, in fairness, if the pulley and pump were seized then squealing and burning rubber would be an obvious sign). I already pointed out the ease and low cost of a belt replacement myself, there wasn’t a contention about it. Electric is more expensive but I never contested that point either.
I get what you’re saying but I hadn’t taken a position on it. I just had a problem with what you presented as absolutes. If I were to appeal to experience myself; I developed a steering fluid leak while in Bumfuck, Nowhere. With no fluid to keep replenishing it, and before I could make it back to civilization, the reservoir had emptied and I’d lost all power steering. It’s just what happens when air is allowed to compromise a hydraulic system.
Now, do I think drive by wire has the potential to be abused by threat actors, the alphabet soup groups, lil Billy’s Flipper 9001, and so on? Sure, so long as RF plays a role or can potentially be added into the system. Do I think there’s an end goal to turn vehicle “ownership” into something more like an unserviceable and indeterminate rental agreement? Absolutely, same as everything else being reduced to a service. But did those questions have anything to do with my gripe? Nope. Without stalking through the rest of your replies, I’d imagine we’re mostly on the same page.
As a quick edit, are you just saying “You can still steer without power steering?” Like “steering still works without the ‘power’ part?” It just dawned on me that was possibly what you saying, and that’s certainly true. I can opine about how godfuckingawful it is at low speeds on rough “roads,” but it’s true you can still steer and get an upper body workout at the same time.
And disagree. It replaces a cable with an overly complex potentiometer with circuit board and wiring that will fail and be irreplaceable 10 Years after the vehicle is Sold, rendering it unuseable.
Every “improvement” on cars has been war on removing your ability to fix anything yourself or keep a car for life. Its all throwaway trash now made to stick you on a lifelong subscription while recording your every move (now with cameras inside too yay)
Remember, “safety” and “protect the children” is how they take all your freedoms away. And it works because people are stupid.
It replaces a cable with an overly complex potentiometer with circuit board and wiring that will fail and be irreplaceable 10 Years after the vehicle is Sold, rendering it unuseable.
you mean a TPS? Easily replaced. Before that, throttle cables would get stuck after a few years of dirt and corrosion.
Wrong. Ive owned over 20 cars and never once had a throttle cable issue. Throttle cables on 50 year old vehicles work just fine. Several have had tps issues. And good luck buying one when they stop making the exact model for your specific vehicle when the factory in China quits making them.
Stop defending idiotic tech in cars that serves to only make shareholders money, like making everything a screen with subscription e brakes (joke).
Throttle cables on 50 year old vehicles work just fine.
No, they don’t. They require regular maintenance, like very other mechanical part on your car. My 1980 Mercedes and equally old Honda motorcycle are both cable-controlled. The linkage in the Mercedes is all sorts of worn out, to the point I can’t accelerate at full throttle anymore. And guess what? Mercedes doesn’t make those parts anymore.
Several have had tps issues.
A Throttle Position Sensor, as you understand it, is not used on electronic throttle bodies. At all. Inside the throttle body, the stepper motor itself (which is not a potentiometer) feeds the position back to the ECU.
And good luck buying one when they stop making the exact model for your specific vehicle when the factory in China quits making them.
TPS sensors were often shared among several models in a lineup, sometimes carried to newer models, and even over different manufacturers at times. They’re stupid simple to make and fix.
I don’t agree. And yes I understand the differences but I was grouping them together for simplicity.
OK cool, you go make a tps sensor or a stepper motor TB and I’ll go make a throttle cable. Let’s see who can do it far easier. Answer: a fucking cable.
You can keep your new rolling spyware computer cars that require a dealer computer to change oil. Not me.
OK cool, you go make a tps sensor or a stepper motor TB and I’ll go make a throttle cable. Let’s see who can do it far easier. Answer: a fucking cable.
You know what’s funny here. You gotta get a cable made to spec these days, cause 1) nobody makes a cable throttle anymore so new OEM cables are scarce, and 2) it’s hard to find premade aftermarket cables that don’t snap in 5000 miles, so you gotta find a shop to do it, or you DIY it and buy the parts and spend the time measuring everything out. Even moreso if it’s for a custom project. That takes time and is a very tedious process. I know that because I’ve had cables made for my Honda XR500. It’s a fully manual bike, choke and everything. No computers anywhere, just a big carb and a big jug - but with modern LED lightning.
Do you hate right to repair or what?
Right to Repair’s message isn’t “go back to carbs”. Our message is “give me the ability to repair and modify MY shit that I bought and paid for any way I goddamn well please”
To fight against tech progression is antithetical to the entire point of R2R. We just want to fix it without having to obtain drawings/parts/tools from factories/manufacturers at obscene prices, or sometimes not at all.
The fact that modern vehicles are rolling spyware has nothing to do with R2R, and everything to do with the shareholders demanding the imaginary money line continue to go up forever steeper, for that sweet, sweet YoY increase bonus. THAT is where your issue lies. Not at some random guy who happens to enjoy making tech his bitch.
LMAO, tell me you have no fucking clue what you’re talking about without saying it. And I’m going to tell you exactly why you’re a fucking moron:
It replaces a cable with an overly complex potentiometer with circuit board and wiring
A potentiometer is one of the simplest electronic components, nothing more than a carbon strip with terminals on each end and a wiper in the middle. Every EFI vehicle with a cable-operated throttle uses this in the throttle position sensor, or TPS. Those fail more often than electronic throttles.
An electronic throttle body doesn’t use any sort of potentiometer, rather a far more precise component called a stepper motor. A stepper motor is little more than a geared-down servo (y’know, like what RC cars use), but with an extra bit inside called an encoder. That encoder is what feeds the throttle position back to the ECU. It also allows the ECU to command the throttle at specific positions based on engine load, for such things like cruise control.
Right off the bat, an electronic throttle has already superceded the oft-worn throttle cable linkage, throttle position sensor, idle air controller, and overly expensive cruise control modules.
that will fail and be irreplaceable 10 Years after the vehicle is Sold, rendering it unuseable.
My guy, you know what a JUNKYARD is? Car-part.com? Fucking christ dude, go outside sometime.
Every “improvement” on cars has been war on removing your ability to fix anything yourself or keep a car for life.
I don’t necessarily disagree with this, but you’re looking at it from the wrong angle. The existence of an electronic throttle body isn’t your enemy. At this point, they have proven several times over to be far more reliable than the mechanical equivalent: cable actuated throttle + TPS + IAC + cruise control module.
Its all throwaway trash now made to stick you on a lifelong subscription while recording your every move (now with cameras inside too yay)
Newer stuff, sure. After that tech has already matured. But the main reason for electronic throttle bodies was actually for emissions compliance. Snapping the throttle closed after a hard acceleration event causes a spike in emissions output. An electronic throttle body essentially eliminates that, while still giving you pretty much the same experience.
Remember, “safety” and “protect the children” is how they take all your freedoms away. And it works because people are stupid.
That’s a different problem. Seatbelts, airbags, safety glass, crumple zones, etc. have all been tested and studied extensively. Injuries have gone up with every safety advancement because those who would have been killed before are now able to walk away with scratches or bruises.
Ya i know what junkyards are, just went there a few weeks ago. Good luck getting many working electronic components that have been sitting in the rain and sun.
Also, nothing feels as good and snappy as a cable. Electronic are laggy as fuck.
I can also guarantee I can do more on my 90s car than you can in your garage with any vehicle made after 2016, with affordable tools.
I agree with you on safety, different issue. Seatbelts dobt mean we need a GPS and internet capable car filled with screens. Thats just idiocy pedaled by car mfgs.
I still don’t agree we need all this bullshit in cars when they were perfected in the 90s. All you need is efi and abs breaks if you dont want to be maintaining a carb and be relatively safe. The issue is now cars are wayyyy to computerized and you can’t even replace your throttle module and or tps without a dealer locked computer. Thats what I’m saying here. Computerizing cars leads to this always, so better to leave them mechanical where they CAN’T ever control what I do with my vehicle.
I just dont understand the defense of new vehicles, myself. They all suck (and are all hideous and huge) and if you gave me the choice between new 1999 Tacoma and 2027 Tacoma, I’ll take the 99 EVERY time 0 questions asked (*with frame rust coating, ofc).
So, here’s the deal. The cars you see as “simple EFI”, like 90s/00s cars, are still highly computerized. My 2008 Sienna has at least 10 different computers, yet has none of the “smart” stuff and no serial/VIN pairing… Well, except maybe like the security module, but nobody gives a shit about that and it can be tuned out anyway.
This era of vehicle is my favorite to tinker with, because in my own career I specialize in low voltage electronic systems, automation, mechanical systems, and making it all play nice together from a computer.
(Proofreading Lka1988 here - long tangent warning)
Well it turns out that vehicles made from the mid-2000s through the mid-to-late 2010s is perfect for someone like me. I have two Toyotas: the aforementioned Sienna, and a 2015 Highlander. Both have the same engine, the legendary 2GR-FE V6, based in the same platform (Camry), yet drive completely differently in terms of engine control and the precision of it.
The Highlander has a beautiful, smooth as silk U660F 6-speed and glides through the gears up to speed.
Meanwhile, the Sienna just absolutely fucking freight-trains itself to speed through the ever-clunky U151E 5-speed with 277k original miles and a sporadic ATF/filter change thrown in for good measure.
I’ve added a bunch of factory upgrade shit to the Sienna for dirt cheap thanks to junkyards. Adding fog lights just needed the lights themselves, the appropriate headlight stalk, and hey, might as well grab the light sensor from this XLE over here and it’s headlight stalk…aaaand now I have fully automatic headlights and fog lights for $40. The harness was already provisioned for it. All the computers needed was to see the components. Worked the first time, 100% factory. I did this with the optional power inverter, auto dimming rear view mirror, all of the optional steering wheel buttons, hood latch sensor, and a bunch more factory shit that I forgot about because I did it so soon.
Anyway, this isn’t the first vehicle I’ve done this to. I added additional factory steering wheel buttons to my former 2013 Caravan, so its aftermarket Pioneer headunit and the iDatalink module had more input controls to program. Which I did.
Point is, all of these cars never had a single problem with their electronic throttles, or any part of the computer systems that wasn’t blatantly user error. In fact, the only kind of problem I’ve ever had with any of that kind of vehicle was a mechanical problem. The Caravan’s transmission shit itself around 100k or so. The Sienna’s power door cable snapped around 250k. I fixed it with improved parts from eBay for $30. The Highlander… Ehhhh… it’s only got 127k and hasn’t given us a single issue in our many years of ownership. I get why people tend to keep them the longest…
Although, I think I got you beat. My 1980 Mercedes 240D has 483k miles, and change. It just shat a valve guide. Still ran though. And I get why people love these things, they are stupid simple to work on. I had the freakishly-heavy cylinder head off in 3 hours. From “hood closed” to “head on my workbench”. I took my time, too. This is a SOHC diesel, mind you, so there’s also timing chain I had to worry about.
EDIT: TIP OF THE DAY: IF YOU’RE GOING TO REPLY, TRY FUCKING READING WHAT I QUOTED AND COMPARE IT TO WHAT I DIDN’T QUOTE AND USE YOUR FUCKING BRAIN TO GET SOME FUCKING CONTEXT.
People thought we were crazy when we said they were tracking and recording your every single move with phones (I said this for years before it was mainstream). Now why do you think they need surveillance centers? more data storage. because everything is tracked and controlled to influence politics, get rid of undesireables etc.
We are way beyond tinfoil hats here bud. If you dont think they have control over every single aspect of your life, youre the delusional one.
You dont think electric door locks can be locked remotely ? They are tied into the ecu, of course they can. Throttles and brakes and steering are all electric and tied into the ecu. So I dont get if you are trying to say “this will never happen” or what.
If youre that ignorant , you better do some reading up because its damn scary.
If you think phones dont track you even when theyre off, look at protesters theyve arrested that had powered off phones. Its called shadow tracking (I believe).
Oh no , see, that won’t work , you are so special that in the exabytes of data being acquired there is a committee of at least 20 people in China analyzing how much yogurt you eat.
Read this and burn you computer, sleep under a Faraday cage.
That was 11 years ago… A lot has happened since then—all the way to self-driving cars… You’d better come back to reality.
Oh, and IT + security incur huge costs, which companies are reluctant to pay, so they leave gaps in their systems. The people who report these issues are then targeted by the companies with legal action—precisely to ensure they don’t have to invest in IT.
Daychilde must be working for an automaker or a government and trying to spread lies that “we are crazy and everything is all fine!” No one would get this upset if they were a normal privacy focused citizen not caring about automaker woes.
But actually though, he’s not wrong. Waymo, Tesla self driving mode, they can remote shut off any tesla they want, people have hacked cars before, it’s kind of a whole thing.
They seemingly haven’t showed their entire hand just yet, so far waymos only forcibly detain and (legally speaking) kidnap people when they detect [CRIME] rather than driving them to the police station, but there’s no reason they couldn’t do that, it is physically possible, the only thing stopping it is “the guy hasn’t pressed that button yet” in essence, but they likely will.
But there indeed do exist cars that do that, so, technically he’s correct. There’s other cars that don’t have self driving but can be hacked and remotely disabled while driving, IIRC the video I watched like, 4y(?) ago was some random Jeep SUV, they shut it down while it was driving on the highway. The video cameras are also not super cool, there have been cases of Tesla employees using them to spy on people (who, iirc, were fucking in a Tesla), the computer in the dash (as well as the cameras) are reporting your driving habits (selling your data) to your insurance companies so they can raise your rates, Ford (iirc) recently patented a driver facing camera that “detects if you’re drunk or agitated” which, of course drunk driving is bad, but that’s too invasive of a measure for me, personally.
And as self driving mode becomes more prevalent, that means it will be more models that actually can do the exact phrasing you’re picking apart, he’s still not wrong, he’s just a little early on that one part.
It really is a significant issue, and only getting worse.
So you dont think cars made today (or from about 2016 ish to now) dont watch your every move and aren’t remotely controllable from either the dealer or the government if they wanted to? Like, theres many videos and articles testing and proving this and I’m not going to find them for you because its dead easy (someone posted some here already). Even a decade ago, Tesla locked a guys car down remotely thousands of miles away because he was installing some custom software on it and they didnt like that. What if that guy had a medical or other emergency and had to drive somewhere at that time? its not safe to allow cars to be remotely controlled and it sure as hell isn’t good for privacy. Nowadays its much worse. Why are you so upset that people try to expose the corruption ? Are you an automaker?
So you dont think cars made today (or from about 2016 ish to now) dont watch your every move
Please feel free to show me where I said that, because if anyone would fucking read what I actually quoted and responded to, they wouldn’t look fucking stupid.
Theyve been spying for 15 years. They can control you too. Why do you think they wanted electric steering and to get rid of throttle cables and “safe” automatic braking? Control. They can lock your doors and drive you anywhere, they can slam on your brakes as a semi truck is behind you if they deem you a threat to dear Leader.
The power they have now to get rid of undesireables , and sweep it all under the rug is a fascists dream.
GM started installing OnStar in some vehicles starting in the 1997 model year so they’ve had the ability since then.
Lighter and more reliable than hydraulic powered steering
drive by wire is more reliable and saves fuel
Alright man, youre clearly blind to what’s actually happening. Have fun driving your camera infested rolling spyware thats only dealer repairable.
Electric steering isnt actually better. They fail out of the blue and are unrepairable.
Show me how much fucking fuel drive by wire saves over a cable. .00001 gallon? Fuck off. You can still have a tps with a cable by the way which I doubt you know because have you ever picked up a wrench? I have doubts.
ok, grandpa. There is no such thing as power steering fluid leaks and belts slipping.
Neither of those stop the function of power steering and are easily repairable. Electrics fail and there is no repair other than a $5000 replacement.
You clearly have never wrenched so you may as we be quiet about topics you dont know. Also youre probably older than me 😅 i just have a lot more mechanic experience than most.
If the accessory belt fails to spin your power steering pump, it isn’t going to pump. Be it a failed belt (which will also impact the alternator and AC compressor) or a seized bearing or whatever else. No pumping, no pressure. No pressure, no power steering. And a sufficient leak, without regular topping up, will eventually allow air into the system. Which, again, means no pressure and no power steering.
How easily (and costly) it’s repaired depends entirely on the nature of the failure. A belt might only set you back $15 to $25 USD and be doable with a cheap socket set and a breaker bar that reaches the tensioner (if you’ve got an automatic tensioner). A bearing might only be $7 but how many people already have the puller and press? Removing and replacing a failed pump? For my old truck the OEM part is discontinued. We’re starting at $80 (remanufactured) going up to around $200 new aftermarket with a reservoir and pulley. And I’ve the luxury of a spacious engine bay and longitudinally mounted engine. Good luck to anyone with a small car and transverse mounted engine; taking off a wheel, popping clips, removing skirting and wheel well plastics… “Easy” becomes relative mighty quick.
I haven’t worked a day in my life as a mechanic (not even small engine) that wasn’t for myself or friends and family, and I still know enough to say you’re either wrong or incomplete in your claims.
They stated slipping belts and a leak. A PS pump still works with those. A serp belt replacement is the easiest possible thing to do on a car besides plugs. Electric? Youre shit out of luck. $3000 down the drain minimum for electric.
I’m just saying the push for electric steering was so they can control your car easier under the guise of safety. Its not an improvement for the end user.
I saw what was written. I stated when/how it wouldn’t work (and, in fairness, if the pulley and pump were seized then squealing and burning rubber would be an obvious sign). I already pointed out the ease and low cost of a belt replacement myself, there wasn’t a contention about it. Electric is more expensive but I never contested that point either.
I get what you’re saying but I hadn’t taken a position on it. I just had a problem with what you presented as absolutes. If I were to appeal to experience myself; I developed a steering fluid leak while in Bumfuck, Nowhere. With no fluid to keep replenishing it, and before I could make it back to civilization, the reservoir had emptied and I’d lost all power steering. It’s just what happens when air is allowed to compromise a hydraulic system.
Now, do I think drive by wire has the potential to be abused by threat actors, the alphabet soup groups, lil Billy’s Flipper 9001, and so on? Sure, so long as RF plays a role or can potentially be added into the system. Do I think there’s an end goal to turn vehicle “ownership” into something more like an unserviceable and indeterminate rental agreement? Absolutely, same as everything else being reduced to a service. But did those questions have anything to do with my gripe? Nope. Without stalking through the rest of your replies, I’d imagine we’re mostly on the same page.
As a quick edit, are you just saying “You can still steer without power steering?” Like “steering still works without the ‘power’ part?” It just dawned on me that was possibly what you saying, and that’s certainly true. I can opine about how godfuckingawful it is at low speeds on rough “roads,” but it’s true you can still steer and get an upper body workout at the same time.
You do realize electronic throttles have been the norm for well over 20 years, right? And it replaces a lot of expensive parts with one single part.
this is Lemmy…they don’t even own a car.
20 years ago, the Chinese and big corporations plotted for this day.
Nah. Electronic throttle bodies were implemented for emissions control.
Sure do.
And disagree. It replaces a cable with an overly complex potentiometer with circuit board and wiring that will fail and be irreplaceable 10 Years after the vehicle is Sold, rendering it unuseable.
Every “improvement” on cars has been war on removing your ability to fix anything yourself or keep a car for life. Its all throwaway trash now made to stick you on a lifelong subscription while recording your every move (now with cameras inside too yay)
Remember, “safety” and “protect the children” is how they take all your freedoms away. And it works because people are stupid.
Yes, the smartest kids play in live traffic.
you mean a TPS? Easily replaced. Before that, throttle cables would get stuck after a few years of dirt and corrosion.
Wrong. Ive owned over 20 cars and never once had a throttle cable issue. Throttle cables on 50 year old vehicles work just fine. Several have had tps issues. And good luck buying one when they stop making the exact model for your specific vehicle when the factory in China quits making them.
Stop defending idiotic tech in cars that serves to only make shareholders money, like making everything a screen with subscription e brakes (joke).
No, they don’t. They require regular maintenance, like very other mechanical part on your car. My 1980 Mercedes and equally old Honda motorcycle are both cable-controlled. The linkage in the Mercedes is all sorts of worn out, to the point I can’t accelerate at full throttle anymore. And guess what? Mercedes doesn’t make those parts anymore.
A Throttle Position Sensor, as you understand it, is not used on electronic throttle bodies. At all. Inside the throttle body, the stepper motor itself (which is not a potentiometer) feeds the position back to the ECU.
TPS sensors were often shared among several models in a lineup, sometimes carried to newer models, and even over different manufacturers at times. They’re stupid simple to make and fix.
I don’t agree. And yes I understand the differences but I was grouping them together for simplicity.
OK cool, you go make a tps sensor or a stepper motor TB and I’ll go make a throttle cable. Let’s see who can do it far easier. Answer: a fucking cable.
You can keep your new rolling spyware computer cars that require a dealer computer to change oil. Not me.
Do you hate right to repair or what?
You know what’s funny here. You gotta get a cable made to spec these days, cause 1) nobody makes a cable throttle anymore so new OEM cables are scarce, and 2) it’s hard to find premade aftermarket cables that don’t snap in 5000 miles, so you gotta find a shop to do it, or you DIY it and buy the parts and spend the time measuring everything out. Even moreso if it’s for a custom project. That takes time and is a very tedious process. I know that because I’ve had cables made for my Honda XR500. It’s a fully manual bike, choke and everything. No computers anywhere, just a big carb and a big jug - but with modern LED lightning.
Right to Repair’s message isn’t “go back to carbs”. Our message is “give me the ability to repair and modify MY shit that I bought and paid for any way I goddamn well please”
To fight against tech progression is antithetical to the entire point of R2R. We just want to fix it without having to obtain drawings/parts/tools from factories/manufacturers at obscene prices, or sometimes not at all.
The fact that modern vehicles are rolling spyware has nothing to do with R2R, and everything to do with the shareholders demanding the imaginary money line continue to go up forever steeper, for that sweet, sweet YoY increase bonus. THAT is where your issue lies. Not at some random guy who happens to enjoy making tech his bitch.
LMAO, tell me you have no fucking clue what you’re talking about without saying it. And I’m going to tell you exactly why you’re a fucking moron:
Right off the bat, an electronic throttle has already superceded the oft-worn throttle cable linkage, throttle position sensor, idle air controller, and overly expensive cruise control modules.
My guy, you know what a JUNKYARD is? Car-part.com? Fucking christ dude, go outside sometime.
I don’t necessarily disagree with this, but you’re looking at it from the wrong angle. The existence of an electronic throttle body isn’t your enemy. At this point, they have proven several times over to be far more reliable than the mechanical equivalent: cable actuated throttle + TPS + IAC + cruise control module.
Newer stuff, sure. After that tech has already matured. But the main reason for electronic throttle bodies was actually for emissions compliance. Snapping the throttle closed after a hard acceleration event causes a spike in emissions output. An electronic throttle body essentially eliminates that, while still giving you pretty much the same experience.
That’s a different problem. Seatbelts, airbags, safety glass, crumple zones, etc. have all been tested and studied extensively. Injuries have gone up with every safety advancement because those who would have been killed before are now able to walk away with scratches or bruises.
Ya i know what junkyards are, just went there a few weeks ago. Good luck getting many working electronic components that have been sitting in the rain and sun.
Also, nothing feels as good and snappy as a cable. Electronic are laggy as fuck.
I can also guarantee I can do more on my 90s car than you can in your garage with any vehicle made after 2016, with affordable tools.
I agree with you on safety, different issue. Seatbelts dobt mean we need a GPS and internet capable car filled with screens. Thats just idiocy pedaled by car mfgs.
I still don’t agree we need all this bullshit in cars when they were perfected in the 90s. All you need is efi and abs breaks if you dont want to be maintaining a carb and be relatively safe. The issue is now cars are wayyyy to computerized and you can’t even replace your throttle module and or tps without a dealer locked computer. Thats what I’m saying here. Computerizing cars leads to this always, so better to leave them mechanical where they CAN’T ever control what I do with my vehicle.
I just dont understand the defense of new vehicles, myself. They all suck (and are all hideous and huge) and if you gave me the choice between new 1999 Tacoma and 2027 Tacoma, I’ll take the 99 EVERY time 0 questions asked (*with frame rust coating, ofc).
So, here’s the deal. The cars you see as “simple EFI”, like 90s/00s cars, are still highly computerized. My 2008 Sienna has at least 10 different computers, yet has none of the “smart” stuff and no serial/VIN pairing… Well, except maybe like the security module, but nobody gives a shit about that and it can be tuned out anyway.
This era of vehicle is my favorite to tinker with, because in my own career I specialize in low voltage electronic systems, automation, mechanical systems, and making it all play nice together from a computer.
(Proofreading Lka1988 here - long tangent warning)
Well it turns out that vehicles made from the mid-2000s through the mid-to-late 2010s is perfect for someone like me. I have two Toyotas: the aforementioned Sienna, and a 2015 Highlander. Both have the same engine, the legendary 2GR-FE V6, based in the same platform (Camry), yet drive completely differently in terms of engine control and the precision of it.
The Highlander has a beautiful, smooth as silk U660F 6-speed and glides through the gears up to speed.
Meanwhile, the Sienna just absolutely fucking freight-trains itself to speed through the ever-clunky U151E 5-speed with 277k original miles and a sporadic ATF/filter change thrown in for good measure.
I’ve added a bunch of factory upgrade shit to the Sienna for dirt cheap thanks to junkyards. Adding fog lights just needed the lights themselves, the appropriate headlight stalk, and hey, might as well grab the light sensor from this XLE over here and it’s headlight stalk…aaaand now I have fully automatic headlights and fog lights for $40. The harness was already provisioned for it. All the computers needed was to see the components. Worked the first time, 100% factory. I did this with the optional power inverter, auto dimming rear view mirror, all of the optional steering wheel buttons, hood latch sensor, and a bunch more factory shit that I forgot about because I did it so soon.
Anyway, this isn’t the first vehicle I’ve done this to. I added additional factory steering wheel buttons to my former 2013 Caravan, so its aftermarket Pioneer headunit and the iDatalink module had more input controls to program. Which I did.
Point is, all of these cars never had a single problem with their electronic throttles, or any part of the computer systems that wasn’t blatantly user error. In fact, the only kind of problem I’ve ever had with any of that kind of vehicle was a mechanical problem. The Caravan’s transmission shit itself around 100k or so. The Sienna’s power door cable snapped around 250k. I fixed it with improved parts from eBay for $30. The Highlander… Ehhhh… it’s only got 127k and hasn’t given us a single issue in our many years of ownership. I get why people tend to keep them the longest…
Although, I think I got you beat. My 1980 Mercedes 240D has 483k miles, and change. It just shat a valve guide. Still ran though. And I get why people love these things, they are stupid simple to work on. I had the freakishly-heavy cylinder head off in 3 hours. From “hood closed” to “head on my workbench”. I took my time, too. This is a SOHC diesel, mind you, so there’s also timing chain I had to worry about.
…k
EDIT: TIP OF THE DAY: IF YOU’RE GOING TO REPLY, TRY FUCKING READING WHAT I QUOTED AND COMPARE IT TO WHAT I DIDN’T QUOTE AND USE YOUR FUCKING BRAIN TO GET SOME FUCKING CONTEXT.
People thought we were crazy when we said they were tracking and recording your every single move with phones (I said this for years before it was mainstream). Now why do you think they need surveillance centers? more data storage. because everything is tracked and controlled to influence politics, get rid of undesireables etc.
We are way beyond tinfoil hats here bud. If you dont think they have control over every single aspect of your life, youre the delusional one.
Yes, ignore what I quoted and give a stupid answer. Good job. “Bud”
You dont think electric door locks can be locked remotely ? They are tied into the ecu, of course they can. Throttles and brakes and steering are all electric and tied into the ecu. So I dont get if you are trying to say “this will never happen” or what.
If youre that ignorant , you better do some reading up because its damn scary.
If you think phones dont track you even when theyre off, look at protesters theyve arrested that had powered off phones. Its called shadow tracking (I believe).
Go back and read the bit I DID quote and compare it to the bits I did NOT quote and maybe you will have a fucking clue.
Jesus christ.
Ok
“I’m so sorry, I didn’t read the context provided and made a stupid fucking answer” is what you should have said.
you know you’re using a computer on the internet, right?
Is your carrier pigeon sick or did you finally find out birds are not real?
Stupid argument I see all the time.
Answer: I can shut those off and unplug them or use a Faraday bag. You cannot do that with a new car if you need to go somewhere.
Oh no , see, that won’t work , you are so special that in the exabytes of data being acquired there is a committee of at least 20 people in China analyzing how much yogurt you eat.
Read this and burn you computer, sleep under a Faraday cage.
Not about being special. Its about keeping our rights not to be surveilled. Not sure why you’re licking boots.
11 years
https://youtu.be/bG2JJw6S0AE https://youtu.be/A-PIDpixn4c https://youtu.be/MK0SrxBC1xs
🥱
They cannot fucking “drive you anywhere”. Don’t be fucking willfully stupid.
That was 11 years ago… A lot has happened since then—all the way to self-driving cars… You’d better come back to reality.
Oh, and IT + security incur huge costs, which companies are reluctant to pay, so they leave gaps in their systems. The people who report these issues are then targeted by the companies with legal action—precisely to ensure they don’t have to invest in IT.
Daychilde must be working for an automaker or a government and trying to spread lies that “we are crazy and everything is all fine!” No one would get this upset if they were a normal privacy focused citizen not caring about automaker woes.
So you think any car can be driven remotely because it has electric motor steering? You still trust your blender?
Quote the part where I mention EVERY car.
Tuahawk is equally delusional and/or astroturfing. Best to block them.
But actually though, he’s not wrong. Waymo, Tesla self driving mode, they can remote shut off any tesla they want, people have hacked cars before, it’s kind of a whole thing.
They seemingly haven’t showed their entire hand just yet, so far waymos only forcibly detain and (legally speaking) kidnap people when they detect [CRIME] rather than driving them to the police station, but there’s no reason they couldn’t do that, it is physically possible, the only thing stopping it is “the guy hasn’t pressed that button yet” in essence, but they likely will.
If they had limited themselves to self-driving cars, then it wouldn’t have been a fucking stupid thing to say.
But they didn’t.
And it was fucking stupid.
But there indeed do exist cars that do that, so, technically he’s correct. There’s other cars that don’t have self driving but can be hacked and remotely disabled while driving, IIRC the video I watched like, 4y(?) ago was some random Jeep SUV, they shut it down while it was driving on the highway. The video cameras are also not super cool, there have been cases of Tesla employees using them to spy on people (who, iirc, were fucking in a Tesla), the computer in the dash (as well as the cameras) are reporting your driving habits (selling your data) to your insurance companies so they can raise your rates, Ford (iirc) recently patented a driver facing camera that “detects if you’re drunk or agitated” which, of course drunk driving is bad, but that’s too invasive of a measure for me, personally.
And as self driving mode becomes more prevalent, that means it will be more models that actually can do the exact phrasing you’re picking apart, he’s still not wrong, he’s just a little early on that one part.
It really is a significant issue, and only getting worse.
So you dont think cars made today (or from about 2016 ish to now) dont watch your every move and aren’t remotely controllable from either the dealer or the government if they wanted to? Like, theres many videos and articles testing and proving this and I’m not going to find them for you because its dead easy (someone posted some here already). Even a decade ago, Tesla locked a guys car down remotely thousands of miles away because he was installing some custom software on it and they didnt like that. What if that guy had a medical or other emergency and had to drive somewhere at that time? its not safe to allow cars to be remotely controlled and it sure as hell isn’t good for privacy. Nowadays its much worse. Why are you so upset that people try to expose the corruption ? Are you an automaker?
Please feel free to show me where I said that, because if anyone would fucking read what I actually quoted and responded to, they wouldn’t look fucking stupid.