- cross-posted to:
- leftymemes@lemmy.dbzer0.com
- cross-posted to:
- leftymemes@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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This is too fucked up. Yesterday, I was accused of being a rapist in an instance with a beef against “tankies”, and their behavior was really shitty and shady. These instance wars are plainly stupid and sad.
The funniest part about the whole tankie thing is that it was coined by British reactionaries in response to the suppression of a counter-revolution in Hungary, which has now been revealed to be a CIA op.
In liberal circles, “tankie” functions as the counterpart to conservatives’ use of “woke.”
I remember getting called a tankie for criticizing Elon Musk back when he was wholesome chungus liberal Iron Man.
I’ve seen it used against people wanting better than ACA in America or pointing out it’s just Romneycare
You know what? I’m gonna go make a reply meme.
Should I link it? Or just let folks find it organically?
https://lemmy.ml/post/53759200I shared it for you, to save you from the effort. Now I’ll admit that I don’t know really much about the Spanish civil war, or the Zapatista uprising in Mexico (the two examples of “non-tankie communism” mentioned in the comments), so if anyone has any good resources or insights on these I’d be happy to read those.
First I’ll say I don’t have anything against anarchists or AnComs on principle. Whatever works in class struggle, we’re all comrades. That being said there seems to be some idealism and misconceptions related to the comments especially. Comments like
Authoritarian and hierarchy types don’t have a lot of imagination and are kind of bad at creative exercises for building new ideas. Their creativity is iterative so requires an existing idea. There has only been Soviet style centralized authoritarian communism so that’s all they imagine. Literally unable to imagine any alternative (unless they read political philosophy).
As we all know “authoritarian” is a meaningless term. This has been gone through so many times. Now if “there has only been Soviet style centralized authoritarian communism” is true, why is that bad? Why shouldn’t people work by what has been proven to be viable by past experience? Every socialist experiment has always been born to be besieged by imperialism constantly working towards its downfall using any means necessary. Idealism or “creating new ideas” is shunned among MLs because it hasn’t really produced any real change. It seems to me the commenters are actually only against “the tankies” because of “the tanks”, which usually refers to the Hungarian counterrevolution which itself was proven to be a CIA-backed counterrevolution attempt by recently declassified CIA-archives. It could refer to the tanks in Tiananmen Square, which was funnily enough also a similar attempt. Afaik there were organic protesting related to both incidents, but in both the government’s response was specifically towards the western aligned violent agitators.
Furthermore one could argue against the statement itself, as for example Yugoslavia, China, and the Soviet Union itself engaged in different kinds of economic and authoritative decentralization, with differing results. So this seems to be a misconception.
idk, just had some issues with some of the comments there. which are pretty much the same issues I have trying to present anarchism as a viable alternative: that is to say mainly the issue of armed struggle against imperialists (that would inevitably happen) without a central authority.
As we all know “authoritarian” is a meaningless term.
Figures you have no counter to that
I just did. But I have another one queued up if you want it:
funny thing about tankie is that they just revealed it’s based on another cia coup attempt. it proves tankies right lmao.
i don’t mean this antagonistically but do you have a source to share for that?
i should really have some good sources saved for this, the tankie thing is a perfect way to expose the irony. took me a while to find this again but it’s worth digging deeper than me if you are interested in it:
basically “tankie” comes from how soviets crushed the hungarians with tanks and the us said it was a brutal suppression of anarchists or something similar.
soviets denied it and accused them of working for the empire, and now the cia under trump has declassified their role in trying for a color revolution in there.
Somewhere in my post history there’s a link
Edit: https://www.joewrote.com/p/jfk-files-reveal-the-cia-role-in
thanks
On the one hand, Western Marxists and Marxist-Leninists are not the same, but on the other hand, both of them—and even anarchists sometimes—get called tankie by liberals anyway.
“Western Marxists” like Sartre or Parenti?
Western Marxists meaning compatible-left Marxists of the imperial core. Western Marxism: How It was Born, How It Died, How It can be Reborn
no, more like chomsky. it’s not nationality that matter but who you’re aligned with.
Who would consider Chomsky a Marxist? 😭💀
I think Epstein called him that in one of the emails
libs?
FFS
and Zizek
Chomsky’s Epstein ties kinda lead me to dismiss anything he has ever wrote.
You’re a few decades late to the party
parenti wrote a book which is kind of like manufacturing consent but better which is called inventing reality, i think you’ll learn something reading chomsky beyond him being a piece of shit, but you’ll learn more if you read parenti, lol.
Based Parenti still kicking ass from the grave!
Parenti sure but Sartre wasn’t a Marxist-Leninist he was a ‘libertarian marxist’ and not in the Rossa Luxemburg Council Communism, or Anarcho-Communism’s use of that term, he’s extremely heterodox given a favourable view on his attempts to critique classic Marxism with his own phenomenology, and anti-marxist giving a less favourable reading
Marxism-Leninism strongly rejects classic/orthodox Marxism, no?
It’s subjective view, personally I would call Marxism-Leninism an extension of Marx’s Marxism rather than a rejection, their main difference being that Marx predicted that Socialist revolution would begin at the in the most advanced capitalist nations(such as Britain and France and the time both were writing) Leninism emphasizes the particular role imperialism plays alongside global capitalism, and thus that revolution may begin in a society such as the Tsarist Russia Empire which while capitalist in many respects still retained many feudal characteristics, which according to your own views on the socialist character of the October revolution, August Revolution etc has been proven correct
yes, you can individually choose to redefine widely agreed/used on terms when talking about the history of Marxism. It just makes conversation with others so much harder, as with all subjective definitions
no, marxism leninism is considered the “orthodox” reading by many. the orthodox being not abandoning class struggle as the main moving force of history. which is essentially what eurocomunnism introduced in the west. rejection of class struggle. introduction of communist parties into electoralism. abandoning armed struggle. supporting liberal policies and the liberalization of the party.
It seems you do not know the history of Marxism very well or we are using differing definitions.
The Mensheviks were largely orthodox Marxists e.g.
Regardless of which tendency is “orthodox”—a fruitless conversation given that each tendency claims orthodoxy—the great majority of Marxists in the world are Marxist-Leninists, and the only successful communist projects to date have been Marxist-Leninist ones.
that’s because “orthodox” in the case of marxism is largely a matter of optics. the mensheviks could be considered orthodox simply because of their ties to russia, the bolsheviks, and so on, but when we analyze their policies we realize they were simply opportunistic and reactionary. today the term is widely used in the sense i describe. essentially to differentiate between actual revolutionary movements that did not abandon class struggle, and eurocommunism which is essentially red liberalism in circlejerk academia groups.
I was once called a tankie for saying that people should organize tenant unions.
haha yea they throw tankie on anything approachin leftist 🫠
Anything left of Reagan will do it
