- cross-posted to:
- linux@programming.dev
- cross-posted to:
- linux@programming.dev
cross-posted from: https://piefed.social/c/linux@programming.dev/p/2509642/linus-torvalds-posts-his-first-ai-assisted-patch-to-the-linux-kernel-synthetic-test-clo
cross-posted from: https://piefed.social/c/linux@programming.dev/p/2509642/linus-torvalds-posts-his-first-ai-assisted-patch-to-the-linux-kernel-synthetic-test-clo
Assuming these updates are fully tested before they’re deployed, by a human, it shouldn’t be that impactful negatively that AI is being used. The problem comes when updates are moved into production without human oversight.
But it gives me the heebie jeebies, since AI is known to make and fuck shit up, and I’m stuck using MS Teams every day in my job so I see all the weird shit that vibe coding produces. I don’t relish the thought of weird, stupid shit happening to my Linux installation.
Doesn’t it invalidate the GPL? Open source licenses depend on copyright, and LLM-generated code isn’t copyrightable.
(Also, it can’t be proven not to contain plagiarised proprietary code, in fact it’s quite likely that it does; between this, the testing / review burden, and the mental decay of developers that use LLMs instead of coding, this pretty much kills open source projects, in several different ways to make sure they stay dead…)
Plus studies on skill decay when using AI. Also the linux maintainer onboarding pipeline—which was already critically endangered—is now no longer building understanding through writing code, just monitoring it’s generation.
I personally think you need to write a language by hand without AI doing it for you to learn in detail. It’s like trying to learn how to do math or how to write mandarin by just supervising an AI doing it… you need to do it yourself. Supervising is fine if you’re already fluent in mandarin and have been writing it for years and years. If you’re just learning it’s less than useless. If anything its directly harmful to learning.
Same with speaking a language yourself without crutching your native language as the best method to learn to speak it (immersion)
Edit: The long term externalities of AI—like pretty much everything nowadays—is going to be made worse by short term thinking. Quarterly profits and yearly results take precedence over long term skill development. Even OSS like linux will eat its seed corn out of expediency because of a lack of maintainers and new candidates being onboarded into the ivory tower mailing lists…
Yup, fair points.
One thing I’m noticing about AI code is it’s very, very task oriented. Like it will produce code, that works for the one objective, but absolutely will not account for other interactions with other parts of the system. It’s really bad at juggling multiple priorities so for every solution it creates, it causes another 2 problems with other parts of the stack. Human coders would design a solution that takes those interactions into account from the ground up. With an AI solution, you kind of have to rebuild those interactions as an afterthought, which is where a lot of failures occur. Since interaction of multiple subsystems is kind of the whole point of a kernel… I have concerns.
Lol, this only happens in Utopia
Utopic might be a bit of a stretch, but I should probably qualify that as good human coders.
Even good programmers are captured in poor practices due to short timelines and end up delivering shit code.
Which Microsoft apparently has access to zero of them.
Every time somebody says Microsoft is now shit because of AI, I have to remind them windows has been human slop since Vista.
Human review of AI is sufficient in theory, but in practice it’s never as thorough as the understanding you get writing it yourself. It’s hard to avoid AI, but it is a constant invitation to laziness.
Unlike reviewing a human who writes code there is zero chance of AI learning from the past and making fewer mistakes in the future. At a least a human has a chance of becoming better at coding from review feedback.
No? Are you not aware of the concept of “memories”? AI do indeed take feedback into account, if they’re designed to.
AI does not have memories.
It has a comparatively small context window that makes things worse the more it fills up.
Eh I really think it does. You don’t news to load everything into context. You need to load where everything is located into context.
That isn’t equivalent to memories.
You are mistaken. Some AI models do indeed have memories.
They save some strings in a document to later read and “remember”. Calling them memories is a reach.
My point stands that they can learn from feedback. Your memories are only information in a virtual document, too. Just as susceptible to corruption, or misinterpretation.
There is no concept of a filesystem in our brains. Weird hills, and such and so forth
The auto-generated memories I’ve seen it create are pretty inane: “always name variables container_ when in MySpecificClass”. Not really learning engineering principles.
Similar, I’ve found AGENT.md files might nudge it in the right direction, but as always it’s a fuzzy matcher, not a learning engineer.
It’s best to generate memories manually, but I’ve had good fortune with auto-generated so far. At least using Co-pilot.
I have found it best to have another AI generate the agent.md - having a layer of interpretation can really clarify the information imparted.
You’re not wrong. I personally prefer to do the work my self.