You dodged every single question I have given you, why the hell would I answer anything you ask like an obediant dog if you won’t even entertain the possibility of answering any of mine? If you won’t even show a basic level of respect in conversation, why on Earth would I assume you’re anything other than a bad-faith troll? It takes two people to have a conversation, I’m not a chatbot for you to manipulate.
I’ll answer your questions if you answer mine. Simple as that.
Lol, look at this guy out here pulling an uno reverse card out of his pocket like it means fucking anything.
Did you vote in the last election, or did you not?
You’ve asked so many fucking questions and split the thread with a partially copy/pasted reply. Sorry if I missed something, but I am trying to cut through bullshit tankie rhetoric in order to get to the meat of their “ideology”, so if I’ve missed an important question, feel free to re-ask it here.
Don’t pretend tankies want “a meaningful path to worker liberation.” I’ve seen the regimes they idolize.
Seems to be at odds with reality. I do want a meaningful path to worker liberation. The disagreement is on how we get there, I believe.
And to hold up my end, yes, I voted third party in 2024. Not specifying more than that because third parties vary state to state and I don’t want to dox which state I live in, so I hope you’ll accept that as sufficient.
Nope. Not at odds with my previous statement since your question, in case you forgot it, was this…
Does the answer change whether or not I’m a socialist that spends time and money organizing for a better world?
Whether or not you voted did not change whether or not you are a socialist that spends time and money organizing for a better world.
Now, back to an actual conversation, you did vote in 2024, and with context, it seems like you voted in the United States in 2024. You obviously understand the importance of voting, so why are you rallying in defense of brainless shitheels attacking me for saying that voting is the bare minimum, and that more effort (like spending money and organizing) is equally if not more important to democracy?
Because we fundamentally disagree on what voting within the context of bourgeois democracy accomplishes and how we go about it. I voted third party specifically because I want to signal, to the ruling class and the working class, that an alternative to both bourgeois parties is necessary. I do not belive that even if whatever third party I vote for wins, that this will change the necessity of revolution.
The way you frame voting is that it’s an important part of engaging with an existing, functionally democratic system. I disagree, I don’t believe we have a functionally democratic system, not even partially. No matter who I vote for, the US will always be under the control of genocidal billionaires. Even if we primary out every single establishment democrat and replace them with the DSA, this cannot change the system into a socialist one, and because control will always remain in the capitalist class due to their ownership of the commanding heights of the economy, a DSA-led US can just as easily turn fascist at any moment.
What I am pushing back against is reformism. I am not pushing back against voting in the abstract. I will not support the Democrats, just as I will not support the Republicans. I am pushing for revolutionary organizing as the sole responsibility of the working class, and the most immediate necessity to bring about socialist revolution.
The way you frame voting is that it’s an important part of engaging with an existing, functionally democratic system. I disagree, I don’t believe we have a functionally democratic system, not even partially.
Then why did you even bother voting? You clearly believe that the system isn’t viable. I don’t think you are naive enough to believe that this system can be changed through simple protest and inaction. What methods would you use to effect the changes you want to see?
I already explained, to signal to the ruling and working classes that socialism is necessary. Ideally, a socialist party would get enough votes to drive up membership.
My position is that we need an entirely new system, a socialist system, and that to get there we need an organized, mass socialist party, mass class consciousness among the working class, and a crisis within the capitalist system that leaves the capitalist class weak. The first two are directly controllable by those of us that work to build up the socialist party and educate our fellow workers, and the last is made inevitable by capitalism itself. I’m arguing that we need to educate, agitate, and organize.
That’s the method. Build up the revolutionary party, and build up the general level of political development of the working class as a whole. Get as many people organized as possible, and create a militant working class ready to sieze power when the capitalist class inevitably weakens.
You dodged every single question I have given you, why the hell would I answer anything you ask like an obediant dog if you won’t even entertain the possibility of answering any of mine? If you won’t even show a basic level of respect in conversation, why on Earth would I assume you’re anything other than a bad-faith troll? It takes two people to have a conversation, I’m not a chatbot for you to manipulate.
I’ll answer your questions if you answer mine. Simple as that.
Lol, look at this guy out here pulling an uno reverse card out of his pocket like it means fucking anything.
Did you vote in the last election, or did you not?
You’ve asked so many fucking questions and split the thread with a partially copy/pasted reply. Sorry if I missed something, but I am trying to cut through bullshit tankie rhetoric in order to get to the meat of their “ideology”, so if I’ve missed an important question, feel free to re-ask it here.
Here, answer just one question, and if you do I’ll tell you:
Does the answer change whether or not I’m a socialist that spends time and money organizing for a better world?
No.
Thank you. Then, this statement:
Seems to be at odds with reality. I do want a meaningful path to worker liberation. The disagreement is on how we get there, I believe.
And to hold up my end, yes, I voted third party in 2024. Not specifying more than that because third parties vary state to state and I don’t want to dox which state I live in, so I hope you’ll accept that as sufficient.
Nope. Not at odds with my previous statement since your question, in case you forgot it, was this…
Whether or not you voted did not change whether or not you are a socialist that spends time and money organizing for a better world.
Now, back to an actual conversation, you did vote in 2024, and with context, it seems like you voted in the United States in 2024. You obviously understand the importance of voting, so why are you rallying in defense of brainless shitheels attacking me for saying that voting is the bare minimum, and that more effort (like spending money and organizing) is equally if not more important to democracy?
Because we fundamentally disagree on what voting within the context of bourgeois democracy accomplishes and how we go about it. I voted third party specifically because I want to signal, to the ruling class and the working class, that an alternative to both bourgeois parties is necessary. I do not belive that even if whatever third party I vote for wins, that this will change the necessity of revolution.
The way you frame voting is that it’s an important part of engaging with an existing, functionally democratic system. I disagree, I don’t believe we have a functionally democratic system, not even partially. No matter who I vote for, the US will always be under the control of genocidal billionaires. Even if we primary out every single establishment democrat and replace them with the DSA, this cannot change the system into a socialist one, and because control will always remain in the capitalist class due to their ownership of the commanding heights of the economy, a DSA-led US can just as easily turn fascist at any moment.
What I am pushing back against is reformism. I am not pushing back against voting in the abstract. I will not support the Democrats, just as I will not support the Republicans. I am pushing for revolutionary organizing as the sole responsibility of the working class, and the most immediate necessity to bring about socialist revolution.
Does that clarify it for you?
Then why did you even bother voting? You clearly believe that the system isn’t viable. I don’t think you are naive enough to believe that this system can be changed through simple protest and inaction. What methods would you use to effect the changes you want to see?
I already explained, to signal to the ruling and working classes that socialism is necessary. Ideally, a socialist party would get enough votes to drive up membership.
My position is that we need an entirely new system, a socialist system, and that to get there we need an organized, mass socialist party, mass class consciousness among the working class, and a crisis within the capitalist system that leaves the capitalist class weak. The first two are directly controllable by those of us that work to build up the socialist party and educate our fellow workers, and the last is made inevitable by capitalism itself. I’m arguing that we need to educate, agitate, and organize.
That’s the method. Build up the revolutionary party, and build up the general level of political development of the working class as a whole. Get as many people organized as possible, and create a militant working class ready to sieze power when the capitalist class inevitably weakens.