I’ve said it on this platform before: I will build furniture in inches until my hands can’t hold a chisel anymore. The inch system arose around the needs of carpentry and woodworking, it works in base 12, which is outright superior to base 10, especially when you divide by 3 and 4 more often than by 5.
Also, the closest tape measure I have to hand is my 5m metric tape. I build things in metric, just…not furniture.
I’m a carpenter as well, and I hear what you’re saying, but also my coworkers and I were just talking yesterday about how much better metric is 😅 Every base-12 advantage is weakened by the fact that I’m constantly expected to do fractions. Everything in metric is a whole number and it’s so hot. Love it when I get an actual number to build something to, instead of a math problem.
If you’ve ever ordered lumber from a Canadian company, you know how much easier it is to calculate and order in metric units vs. board-feet. I feel bad for their sales reps who have to deal with us Yankeestanis.
Also, all the really nice chisels and hand tools from Japan and Europe are already in metric.
Yeah; you’ll often find boards in America milled to 3/4" or 1 1/2". Those are 1/16th or 1/8th of a foot. A lot of boards used in furniture are 3/4" thick. Half of 3/4 is 3/8, a third of 3/4 is 1/4. It solves the problems we need to solve, and the metric woodworkers start sounding how teaspoon/cup/quart cooks do.
A dozenal metric system would work as well as the decimal metric system, as long as everything else was base-12:
in base 12
in base 10
1m’m = 10⁻³m = 0.001m
1m’m = 12⁻³m = 1/1728m
1c’m = 10⁻²m = 0.01m
1c’m = 12⁻²m = 1/144m
1m = 1m
1m = 1m
1k’m = 10³m = 1000m
1k’m = 12³m = 1728m
Since we’re at this might as well say the day has 10₁₂k’s = 20736₁₀s. Each k’s is exactly two of our current hours, and each “new second” is roughly two four of our current seconds. Enough of this Sumerian mixed base already!
I’ve setup a software that generate quotes, sales invoice and production order for a windows and door company. The sales person enter the dimensions and option of the window and it automatically calculate the price, the exact amount material, deduct it from the inventory and generate the cutting and assembly instruction.
They were all working with fractional inches. I’ve started setting up the system using inches and it was a NIGHTMARE ! I quickly decided to convert everything on metric in the back end and to do all the calculations on that and I reconvert it in inches at the end.
Now most of the workers are using metric because it just make more sense.
What do you do when a piece you’re cutting isnt exactly a foot, say, 11 or 13 inches? I know nothing about woodworking, but I’m assuming there isnt a unified standard to make everything match to the nearest whole foot, so then this whole base 12 thing goes out the window, or am I missing something here?
Basically there is a conflict going on amongst the woodworkers of the world between those who think clearer in decimals, and those who think clearer in fractions. The fraction folks will tend to prefer standard units, the decimal thinkers will tend to prefer metric.
What’s interesting to me is: you only ever hear Americans complaining about metric, but you never hear woodworkers from Europe or Japan talk about the advantages of standard units… while the Europeans and Japanese are also pumping out generally much higher-quality woodworking than most folks in the USA are. You can probably tell which I prefer lol
My take is, if the standard units were really that much better, I think Japanese and French folks would be using them, because their cultures care a looot more about fine woodworking than the USA’s culture does.
I meant, for cutting in thirds and quarters. An exact foot you can cut at 3 and 4 inches, but if a board is 13 inches, divide that by 3 and you have to cut at… 4.3333333 inches?
Same thing you do for cutting 13cm into thirds: make one third a bit fat. Go 4 1/4, 4 1/4 and 4 1/2". Or construct it.
That’s not a problem I face in the wood shop a lot though. A more practical problem: We tend to mill boards to 3/4" in thickness. To do a half-lap joint, you need to cut away half the thickness of each board and then lap them over each other, you can set your depth to 3/8" and you’re there. If I’m going to do a bridle joint or a mortise and tenon, a third of 3/4" is 1/4". Show me a third of 19mm on a metric ruler. I’ll show you where it is: 6, 6, and 7mm.
I’ve said it on this platform before: I will build furniture in inches until my hands can’t hold a chisel anymore. The inch system arose around the needs of carpentry and woodworking, it works in base 12, which is outright superior to base 10, especially when you divide by 3 and 4 more often than by 5.
Also, the closest tape measure I have to hand is my 5m metric tape. I build things in metric, just…not furniture.
I’m a carpenter as well, and I hear what you’re saying, but also my coworkers and I were just talking yesterday about how much better metric is 😅 Every base-12 advantage is weakened by the fact that I’m constantly expected to do fractions. Everything in metric is a whole number and it’s so hot. Love it when I get an actual number to build something to, instead of a math problem.
If you’ve ever ordered lumber from a Canadian company, you know how much easier it is to calculate and order in metric units vs. board-feet. I feel bad for their sales reps who have to deal with us Yankeestanis.
Also, all the really nice chisels and hand tools from Japan and Europe are already in metric.
Wow, base 12, I never thought of thas! You halve it, quarter it, and third it, and still end up with clean integers.
Yeah; you’ll often find boards in America milled to 3/4" or 1 1/2". Those are 1/16th or 1/8th of a foot. A lot of boards used in furniture are 3/4" thick. Half of 3/4 is 3/8, a third of 3/4 is 1/4. It solves the problems we need to solve, and the metric woodworkers start sounding how teaspoon/cup/quart cooks do.
A dozenal metric system would work as well as the decimal metric system, as long as everything else was base-12:
Since we’re at this might as well say the day has 10₁₂k’s = 20736₁₀s. Each k’s is exactly two of our current hours, and each “new second” is roughly
twofour of our current seconds. Enough of this Sumerian mixed base already!I’ve setup a software that generate quotes, sales invoice and production order for a windows and door company. The sales person enter the dimensions and option of the window and it automatically calculate the price, the exact amount material, deduct it from the inventory and generate the cutting and assembly instruction.
They were all working with fractional inches. I’ve started setting up the system using inches and it was a NIGHTMARE ! I quickly decided to convert everything on metric in the back end and to do all the calculations on that and I reconvert it in inches at the end.
Now most of the workers are using metric because it just make more sense.
What do you do when a piece you’re cutting isnt exactly a foot, say, 11 or 13 inches? I know nothing about woodworking, but I’m assuming there isnt a unified standard to make everything match to the nearest whole foot, so then this whole base 12 thing goes out the window, or am I missing something here?
Basically there is a conflict going on amongst the woodworkers of the world between those who think clearer in decimals, and those who think clearer in fractions. The fraction folks will tend to prefer standard units, the decimal thinkers will tend to prefer metric.
What’s interesting to me is: you only ever hear Americans complaining about metric, but you never hear woodworkers from Europe or Japan talk about the advantages of standard units… while the Europeans and Japanese are also pumping out generally much higher-quality woodworking than most folks in the USA are. You can probably tell which I prefer lol
My take is, if the standard units were really that much better, I think Japanese and French folks would be using them, because their cultures care a looot more about fine woodworking than the USA’s culture does.
Japan had their own system quite similar to inches that was so popular Japan had to ban the sale or transfer of the rulers.
You look at your tape measure, at the number 11 or 13 as appropriate, put a mark there, then take it to the saw and cut it.
I meant, for cutting in thirds and quarters. An exact foot you can cut at 3 and 4 inches, but if a board is 13 inches, divide that by 3 and you have to cut at… 4.3333333 inches?
Same thing you do for cutting 13cm into thirds: make one third a bit fat. Go 4 1/4, 4 1/4 and 4 1/2". Or construct it.
That’s not a problem I face in the wood shop a lot though. A more practical problem: We tend to mill boards to 3/4" in thickness. To do a half-lap joint, you need to cut away half the thickness of each board and then lap them over each other, you can set your depth to 3/8" and you’re there. If I’m going to do a bridle joint or a mortise and tenon, a third of 3/4" is 1/4". Show me a third of 19mm on a metric ruler. I’ll show you where it is: 6, 6, and 7mm.