Less the arguments, more the evidence: there was nothing like a secret agreement to invade Poland, there were informalized areas the Nazis were to not go beyond and areas the Soviets were not to go beyond. This would be indicative of a percieved alliance if it wasn’t for the fact that at the same time, the Soviet Union was preparing for war with the Nazis and the Nazis the same for the Soviet Union, it was just a way to buy a bit of extra time as the west refused to join the Soviets until the war had become unavoidable on their turf.
In the event of a territorial and political rearrangement in the areas belonging to the Baltic States (Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania), the northern boundary of Lithuania shall represent the boundary of the spheres of influence of Germany and U.S.S.R. In this connection the interest of Lithuania in the Vilnius area is recognized by each party.
Article II
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In the event of a territorial and political rearrangement of the areas belonging to the Polish state, the spheres of influence of Germany and the U.S.S.R. shall be bounded approximately by the line of the rivers Narew, Vistula and San.
The question of whether the interests of both parties make desirable the maintenance of an independent Polish state and how such a state should be bounded can only be definitely determined in the course of further political developments.
In any event both governments will resolve this question by means of a friendly agreement.
Are we really pretending we don’t know what “In the event of a territorial and political rearrangement of the areas belonging to the Polish state” means
Yes, this was not an agreement to invade jointly, the USSR entered Poland 17 days after the Nazis did. This was the Soviet Union providing a “no-go” line for the Nazis in the event of Nazi invasion, largely including areas Poland had invaded and annexed from Lithuania and Ukraine a couple decades prior.
Neither country expected the treaty to last, and the areas in Poland were largely areas annexed from Ukraine and Lithuania beforehand. Is your point that the Soviets expected the Nazis to stay non-hostile until the end of World War II or even beyond it? Not only would that have been stupid, we have evidence to the contrary, that neither country expected the treaty to last.
I’ve already explained, it was a way for the Soviets to limit Nazi advances without breaking the pact. Neither country expected the pact to last very long, this wasn’t a coordinated plan to take over Europe but a way to stall the Nazi advance. Your point would require the Soviets to have genuinely wished to be allies of the Nazis, and to intend on doing so throughout all of World War II.
Less the arguments, more the evidence: there was nothing like a secret agreement to invade Poland, there were informalized areas the Nazis were to not go beyond and areas the Soviets were not to go beyond. This would be indicative of a percieved alliance if it wasn’t for the fact that at the same time, the Soviet Union was preparing for war with the Nazis and the Nazis the same for the Soviet Union, it was just a way to buy a bit of extra time as the west refused to join the Soviets until the war had become unavoidable on their turf.
Secret Protocol, Article I & II
What you quotes supports Cowbees point.
Are we really pretending we don’t know what “In the event of a territorial and political rearrangement of the areas belonging to the Polish state” means
Oh so it doesn’t say what you claim it does, but we’re supposed to just accept that it’s secretly a coded message, based on what?
You think that part is “secretly encoded”? Lol that’s some “gee if this thing just happens to happen *wink wink*”.
Ok, so you’re just begging the question.
I’m sure the war just happened to happen right after they made the pact. Quite the timing.
Even you must know what a reach that is
Yes, this was not an agreement to invade jointly, the USSR entered Poland 17 days after the Nazis did. This was the Soviet Union providing a “no-go” line for the Nazis in the event of Nazi invasion, largely including areas Poland had invaded and annexed from Lithuania and Ukraine a couple decades prior.
This was them dividing the country between them for when the war was concluded. Unless we pretend we don’t know what this means
Neither country expected the treaty to last, and the areas in Poland were largely areas annexed from Ukraine and Lithuania beforehand. Is your point that the Soviets expected the Nazis to stay non-hostile until the end of World War II or even beyond it? Not only would that have been stupid, we have evidence to the contrary, that neither country expected the treaty to last.
You were arguing they weren’t planning on attacking and dividing Poland. That’s what my quote is in reply to.
Correct, because they didn’t.
What do you think the Secret Protocol and them spelling out where the actual border will be set was about
I’ve already explained, it was a way for the Soviets to limit Nazi advances without breaking the pact. Neither country expected the pact to last very long, this wasn’t a coordinated plan to take over Europe but a way to stall the Nazi advance. Your point would require the Soviets to have genuinely wished to be allies of the Nazis, and to intend on doing so throughout all of World War II.