Please, go, find any evidence of mass shootings carried out by basically random, deranged individuals in the USSR, with their own firearms,.or firearms that they somehow obtained in a personal capacity, for private use.
Genuinely, if you can find anything about that, I’d love to hear about it.
But you can’t just imply/assert something happened with literally 0 evidence, and flip the burden of proof into an assbackwards state.
Yes, the USSR definitely did use the mass armed power of the state in many ways that were very bad.
But… thats not the same thing as broad individual access to firearms leading to rogue actors going on mass shooting sprees.
The USSR had massive gun control for private citizens… as best I can tell, you could pretty much only own something like a smoothbore, single or double barrel, break action hunting shotgun, as a private citizen in the USSR.
I’m don’t even think most average people were allowed to privately own a pistol, you’d have to hold some kind of position in either the military or state to be able to do that, again, as best I can tell.
Anything beyond that would be highly restricted, criminalized.
So… yeah. It would seem to follow that if private access to firearms is heavily restricted, you don’t get a bunch of private individuals having a uh, terminal ballistically enchanced public crashout.
I’m not gonna pretend I’m an expert on the history of this subject, in the USSR… but you shouldn’t either.
‘People I don’t like are bad, so that gives me free reign to make up baseless claims about them’…
… thats a significant reason why people who don’t like tankies… don’t like tankies.
Its because they make disingenous arguments and argue via implications that can’t be proved or disproved.
You’re doing the rhetorical equivalent of ‘just asking questions’.
Please provide either some actual evidence, or at least a logically compelling argument that what you are asserting/implying … actually happened.
literally just https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_Soviet_Union
My criticism is not about just schools, it’s about the opaque way authoritarianism works. And either way anything positive about the USSR is undermined by the millions killed by it, just like anything positive done by the US is undermined by its imperialism and capitalism, which also killed millions. At the end of the day, it’s really just simple as “don’t support mass murderers and people who associate with their power”. I really don’t get how people can just… ignore all the deaths.
Oh ok, so there’s considerably less than one a year.
You know, due to gun control.
Compared to the modern US with over one a day.
Saying… anything positive about X is undermined by negative things about X is just completely missing the point… well, any potentially productive point.
The USSR did bad things, authoritarianism is bad.
Uh huh. Yep.
Apply that logic to any other society, ever.
Ok, I guess we don’t have any societies where the state acts as a functional monopoly on the legitimate use of violence that are worth discussing as examples of anything good.
Thus apparently there are no examples of nearly any societies, ever, worth further investigation or comparison or potential, at least partial, emulation.
… Am I misunderstanding you, or is that your actual position?
Or are you just nonsenically picking on the USSR for a problem it did not really have in comparison to many other societies?
If your point is ‘mass violence enabled by the state is bad’… almost no one on lemmy is going to broadly disagree with that, no one is going to ignore all the deaths, other than I guess tankies and fascists.
Its a moot point (in the US legal system sense of moot point), its a pointless point to make, amongst people with functioning consciences.
But if you’re trying to have, I dunno, a conversation or commentary on …
… what would be an ideal way for modern society to handle the nearly completely unavoidable fact that firearms exist in a modern society? who should have them, or be able to have them, under what circumstances, under which conditions? …
… then the framing of your original comment is completely unproductive and banal.
It asserts a laughably false equivalence with no evidence.
And yes, it is still a laughably false equivalence to point at evidence of something like a 1000 degree of magnitude difference in number of yearly mass shootings… as … evidence of equivalence.
It is not as simple as ‘Don’t support mass murderers.’
One person’s murderer is another person’s justified hero, dutiful soldier, person just doing their job, justified revolutionary, despicable terrorist, etc.
Please, go, find any evidence of mass shootings carried out by basically random, deranged individuals in the USSR, with their own firearms,.or firearms that they somehow obtained in a personal capacity, for private use.
Genuinely, if you can find anything about that, I’d love to hear about it.
But you can’t just imply/assert something happened with literally 0 evidence, and flip the burden of proof into an assbackwards state.
Your opponent did then provide the evidence you asked for and then you dismissed it. A proper play would’ve meant admitting that these events did happen after being presented evidence. You could’ve carried your point afterwards and talked about the difference in scale, but you undermined your own argument by dismissing theirs.
I think that’s like a ten yard penalty and a time out, take a breather and come back working together on finding a good point through dialog instead of fighting, seems like you could reach each other if you wanted.
Feel free to provide any sources related to mass shootings carried out by children in the USSR. The victims can be any age, so surely you’ll find something. Let me know when you figure all that out.
I’m going to disagree on the mod’s comment over here.
I am yet to see a 12yo with such a bad reading comprehension and I was pretty stupid back when I was 12.
0 publicized shootings. all my homies hate tankies.
Look.
I also don’t like tankies.
But wtf are you talking about?
Please, go, find any evidence of mass shootings carried out by basically random, deranged individuals in the USSR, with their own firearms,.or firearms that they somehow obtained in a personal capacity, for private use.
Genuinely, if you can find anything about that, I’d love to hear about it.
But you can’t just imply/assert something happened with literally 0 evidence, and flip the burden of proof into an assbackwards state.
Yes, the USSR definitely did use the mass armed power of the state in many ways that were very bad.
But… thats not the same thing as broad individual access to firearms leading to rogue actors going on mass shooting sprees.
The USSR had massive gun control for private citizens… as best I can tell, you could pretty much only own something like a smoothbore, single or double barrel, break action hunting shotgun, as a private citizen in the USSR.
I’m don’t even think most average people were allowed to privately own a pistol, you’d have to hold some kind of position in either the military or state to be able to do that, again, as best I can tell.
Anything beyond that would be highly restricted, criminalized.
So… yeah. It would seem to follow that if private access to firearms is heavily restricted, you don’t get a bunch of private individuals having a uh, terminal ballistically enchanced public crashout.
I’m not gonna pretend I’m an expert on the history of this subject, in the USSR… but you shouldn’t either.
‘People I don’t like are bad, so that gives me free reign to make up baseless claims about them’…
… thats a significant reason why people who don’t like tankies… don’t like tankies.
Its because they make disingenous arguments and argue via implications that can’t be proved or disproved.
You’re doing the rhetorical equivalent of ‘just asking questions’.
Please provide either some actual evidence, or at least a logically compelling argument that what you are asserting/implying … actually happened.
literally just https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_Soviet_Union My criticism is not about just schools, it’s about the opaque way authoritarianism works. And either way anything positive about the USSR is undermined by the millions killed by it, just like anything positive done by the US is undermined by its imperialism and capitalism, which also killed millions. At the end of the day, it’s really just simple as “don’t support mass murderers and people who associate with their power”. I really don’t get how people can just… ignore all the deaths.
Oh ok, so there’s considerably less than one a year.
You know, due to gun control.
Compared to the modern US with over one a day.
Saying… anything positive about X is undermined by negative things about X is just completely missing the point… well, any potentially productive point.
The USSR did bad things, authoritarianism is bad.
Uh huh. Yep.
Apply that logic to any other society, ever.
Ok, I guess we don’t have any societies where the state acts as a functional monopoly on the legitimate use of violence that are worth discussing as examples of anything good.
Thus apparently there are no examples of nearly any societies, ever, worth further investigation or comparison or potential, at least partial, emulation.
… Am I misunderstanding you, or is that your actual position?
Or are you just nonsenically picking on the USSR for a problem it did not really have in comparison to many other societies?
If your point is ‘mass violence enabled by the state is bad’… almost no one on lemmy is going to broadly disagree with that, no one is going to ignore all the deaths, other than I guess tankies and fascists.
Its a moot point (in the US legal system sense of moot point), its a pointless point to make, amongst people with functioning consciences.
But if you’re trying to have, I dunno, a conversation or commentary on …
… what would be an ideal way for modern society to handle the nearly completely unavoidable fact that firearms exist in a modern society? who should have them, or be able to have them, under what circumstances, under which conditions? …
… then the framing of your original comment is completely unproductive and banal.
It asserts a laughably false equivalence with no evidence.
And yes, it is still a laughably false equivalence to point at evidence of something like a 1000 degree of magnitude difference in number of yearly mass shootings… as … evidence of equivalence.
It is not as simple as ‘Don’t support mass murderers.’
One person’s murderer is another person’s justified hero, dutiful soldier, person just doing their job, justified revolutionary, despicable terrorist, etc.
Sorry mate, I had to call in the reff
You are quoted as saying
Your opponent did then provide the evidence you asked for and then you dismissed it. A proper play would’ve meant admitting that these events did happen after being presented evidence. You could’ve carried your point afterwards and talked about the difference in scale, but you undermined your own argument by dismissing theirs.
I think that’s like a ten yard penalty and a time out, take a breather and come back working together on finding a good point through dialog instead of fighting, seems like you could reach each other if you wanted.
RIP to those imaginary dead children you just made up
I haven’t mentionned any children. You’re putting words in my mouth.
This deflection doesn’t even work lmao.
Feel free to provide any sources related to mass shootings carried out by children in the USSR. The victims can be any age, so surely you’ll find something. Let me know when you figure all that out.
Removed by mod
Go ahead and show me proof that children massacred people with guns I’ll wait.
Removed by mod
I’m going to disagree on the mod’s comment over here.
I am yet to see a 12yo with such a bad reading comprehension and I was pretty stupid back when I was 12.