I don’t mean stuff that was obviously bad on sight (to you) and so you didn’t bother with, or even necessarily content you just checked out of before the first episode was done. But a series that you ultimately felt wasted your time and abandoned due to its total lack of quality.
You skipped the first 2 episodes?
What? Manousos? No he didn’t.
The “Spanish dude” tells a lot about the amount of attention/analysis they put into it. I’m also bad at remembering names but… Spanish?
A lot of the “meaning” in Pluribus is in the details imo. Facial expressions, silent scenes, little choices in the acting, direction, cinematography. Also not saying that it’s the most sublime expression of art in the history of cinema, just that I believe most people that found it “boring” just didn’t really watch it
::: spoilers Pluribus season 1 Nah, he did. But the writers and characters are aware of that. His eventual willingness to compromise his values for the greater good is very on-topic for the themes of the series. :::
Manousos? Compromised his values?
Do you mean him talking to the hive at the end?
::: spoilers Pluribus season 1 That’s part of it, yes. It starts when he steals the ambulance, which Carol later points out is hypocritical of him. He realizes she’s right and consciously decides to start making compromises like allowing her cellphone and exploiting collective resources as a means of discovering how to save humanity. It’s a dramatic change from his earlier stance, like how he leaves money in exchange for stolen gas, and it’s executed very well. I don’t think his unwillingness to sin would have gotten him far in his goals, but the defeat of his resolution is still tragic. :::
He took the ambulance and wrote down in the hospital that he owed them.
So him talking to the hive as a means to understand how to defeat them, because Carol suggested he finally do so is somehow compromising his values? Should people never ever change or adapt to anything ever?
You seem to attach a negative meaning to what I’ve said. Compromising values is one way that a person can change and adapt.
But his “personality” was not being against the Hive (that’s Carol trait). His personality was shown to be a stubborn (flawed character= great) asshole (even with carol). And suddenly he become the Hive experimentation dude, talking with them. Why didnt he do it earlier? Yes… because he was stupid!! (We knew from the beginning he was, by comparing to carol).
The show make a root for a stupid asshole dude. Which now has lost his only redeeming quality (his no compromise stance to the point of dying) Like it make us root for an asshole Carol (flawed character= great) because she was against the hive. And when she flip, we realize we just rooted for an asshole with now lost her redeeming quality. BAD writing.
But that not even the worst part of the show… there are still some fun in those character. But the show is just boring: 1 event by episode, which is totally canceled at the beginning of the next one.
I mean, I didnt like Stanger things either, but watching them side by side is painful… Stranger things had multiple stuff happening that actually impact the episode, and the serie. They were often dumb things , and over the top and super cringe with bad acting, but at least something happened.
He is absolutely against the hive at its core, and is opposed way more than Carol - and he can’t be manipulated or bought regarding it - unlike Carol. He spoke to them because Carol suggested he do so.
Why is a “no compromise” stance to the point of being unable to do anything or learn anything an inherently redeeming quality? This logic simply makes no sense.
She flipped, then flipped back.
I fail to see how Carol being manipulated by the hive is inherently bad writing.
What event was “canceled” by the beginning of the next one?
|Why is a “no compromise” stance to the point of being unable to do anything or learn anything an inherently redeeming quality
If you remove his non-compromise scenes: you have less than 1 min of him in the show. The whole point of this character is that. Without it , he do NOT exist.
That trait is something that we dont do/see in everyday life. As a viewer it is admirable. This justify how inefficient, and inutile that dude is. He is a total badass in his stubbornness. This is his ONLY character trait. when it is gone, what is left? A dummy who in 6 episode managed to hear noise at the radio… 6 fricking episode!
|She flipped, then flipped back. That’s the point: nobody like flipfloper
at this point the french dude with prostitute, seems more likeable… plus at least he got some interesting info about the hive (stem cell). So when your obviously “evil” character is more effective (knew about human eating) , when he is more efficient than your main… it is bad writing.
|What event was “canceled” by the beginning of the next one? Every event at the end of episode promise a big reveal, is super exciting… and the mountain birth a mole.
1- Grenade explode - > panic -> 5 min later nothing change … one character is in hospital… big deal. 2- Carol drug the hive (great, pro actif, original) -> panic -> nothing change … Ok the Hive go away : this is a non event… removing a character is bad to advance the plot. 3- Carol learn about eating human (great, pro actif, original) -> panic -> she talk to the french -> nothing change 4- nobody do nothing of interest for 2 episode (carol play golf, the spanish dude stupidly go on a suicide journey) -> they meet -> nothing change 5- Carol get in relation with the Hive -> no panic -> nothing change
there is more happening in 1 episode of Stranger Things… they discover a secret, plan something, put their plan in place, contact the person, resolve personal issue, kill something… etc I’m not obsessed with always action… but in Pluribus NOTHING of importance ever happen. Nothing is learn! Nothing is put in place! No plan! No nothing.
Let me bet something: the A bomb (whouaahhh, omg! exciting! ), will absolutely be of no point in next episode. … that the whole emo of this show: exciting stuff -> 0 impact. Like with the grenade, the drug, the human eating… it will be vaguely discussed in a 5 min dialogue, and nothing will change.
The show is wasting time. Which could be kind of okay, if the character were cool to hangout with… So if you enjoy watching asshole flipfloper , or stubborn dummy, you can get some good television. This is not my case, and I would argue that the case of most people watching tv-show, or any medium.
Sorry, why do you need to somehow remove his prior scenes in the first place?
It’s not at all. He’s clearly principled. He’s clearly a gifted survivalist.
What did you expect to change from that? Moreover, it showed Carol just how far the hive would to go to make her happy. That set the stage for the final episode reveal of her acquiring the nuclear warhead from them.
Nothing changed? Her decision to try and drug Zosia caused the hive to abandon her which lasted for the next 2 episodes and culminated in her breaking down and begging for them to come back. It was ultimately them ghosting and abandoning her which led to her surrendering.
No, it is not. At all. It tells a little bit more about the hive and greatly impacts Carol personally.
What do you imagine should have changed exactly? How would you have written that exactly? She learned why they do it. We learned from that discovery that the most of hive are all going to starve within a decade due to their rigid “do not kill” ideology. This is not nothing. It adds a sense of urgency from Carol’s perspective to solve it quicker, and the other survivors perspective to work with them to come up with alternatives. We also learned quite a bit about Koumba during her interactions with him - there’s some depth to him despite his hedonism.
You literally just said that you admired Manousos stubbornness from a writing perspective. Now you’re against it?
What do you imagine should have changed exactly? How would you have written that exactly? That she got into a relationship with Zosia was symbolising her effective surrender and acceptance. Until Manousos arrived and she discovered they were still working on a way to convert her.
I didnt register as tragic to me. (the same way the 2 ep of Carol playing golf and ending with caving in to the Hivemind was not tragic, nor growth)
The no compromise stance made the character dumb (when we see Carol making progress without it) But as a viewer you still root for the character because he is so un-moving in his belief. When he abandon all of it in the span in 5 min, it is not tragic. You realize he was dumb all along, which make the viewer feeling bad for having rooted for such a dumb dude. Especially one that now is perceived has lacking principle.
he went from not addressing the HiveMind, to the point of dying, and finish by talking and demanding stuff to them out of the blue.
Either, he was a man of principle, and should stand by them no matter what. When he reconsidered his principle super fast, then he make it clear he was very dumb at the beginning with his non compromise stance.
Demanding? Are you referring to when he was leaving the hospital after they operated on him with a knife to the throat of one of them or when he sat down with Zosia to find out how the hive operates, and what Carol has been doing?
Because neither of them represented a 180 at all.
Yes, the show made it clear he had to bend in some way with his non-compromise, non-interaction stance. And he did. But he hasn’t “flipped”. He still wants to reverse the hive. He still can’t be flipped (unlike Carol was).