A widespread concern is what would happen to Dutch weapon systems if the Americans were to withdraw completely as an ally. For example, Dutch F-35 aircraft are dependent on American software updates. Yet, Tuinman isn’t particularly worried about this.
“The F-35 is truly a shared product. The British make the Rolls-Royce engines, and the Americans simply need them too.” And even if this mutual dependency doesn’t result in software updates, the F-35, in its current state, is still a better aircraft than other types of fighters.
If you still want to upgrade despite everything, I’m going to say something I should never say, but I will anyway: you can jailbreak an F-35 just like an iPhone. (Crack it with your own software, ed.)
The military wants the best equipment, and currently in terms of specs that is the F-35.
That comes with a dependence on the United States, which at the time of purchasing these jets was not considered to be a particular concern because America is a good ally and a part of NATO.
Following Trump’s re-election and antics over Greenland, that calculation is now different. It might not be worth it to buy new F-35s at this point (though Germany seems to be considering it still), but the Dutch army has pre-existing F-35s which we should be able to use even if America doesn’t want us to for whatever reason.
At this point for the purchase of new jets we really should be looking at the new Eurofighter though, imo
So basically, its enshittification.
… but with a multi role stealth aircraft.
Its very funny to me that all the people who make all the decisions and rules around how software should work… are finding out that when everything hss software in it, well, everything has software in it.
Personally I’m waiting for more custom ROMs or whatever for cars.
Oh yeah this car is unlocked, you just actually get all the features, no need to pay Ford or GM or BMW on an perpetual basis for your heated seats.
With F-35’s costs, is it really the best equipment? I suspect the real reason is that replacing it is a gigantic undertaking that might be far more expensive short-term.
The components dependency part in fighter jets, though, is something they really should be able to solve. Those are very complex systems, but designed with integration and customization in mind. That’s one of the reasons they are so expensive. Slowly replacing everything in them with components from more reliable producers is normal for militaries. Well, for militaries with actual RnD and production, of course Uzbekistan or Colombia can’t do that, but Netherlands can.
Name another stealth jet that you can buy right now in significant numbers.
Do Netherlands need a stealth jet at all? Perhaps a fleet of cheap drones is better.
I mean, in some “global power projection” context like USA or thinking of readiness for total war like Israel, those jets are not optional.
But the threat model of Netherlands is which? Considering it doesn’t even have mandatory military training.
There is an argument smaller countries need stealth fighters more than big ones like America because there is a larger emphasis on each plane and pilot. Giving each pilot the competitive edge is necessary when you only have a few hundred pilots max, compared to the USA that has around 15,000.
Honestly calling a country that can afford even a single F-35 small seems strange. And having only one doesn’t make sense. You need to rotate them for maintenance, have a few up at once (at least 2) for basic tactics, so it seems having less than 8 fighters is just not enough. And then you need jet fuel, missiles, ground systems, avionics, radars, all up-to-date.
The question was about the best equipment, and in it’s class F-35 is (so far) the best, considering the price. I’m sure everyone and their grandma would want 100M worth of cheap anti-drone tech too but a contract’s a contract, and they get cool planes out of it. Planes that will get a shitload of upgrades in the near future, wingman uavs for example.
It’s not just about defending the Netherlands but all of NATO, which involves deploying Dutch planes to eastern Europe, close to Russian AA systems for example.
It was Dutch F-35s that shot down the Russian drones over Poland. It could’ve just as well been a Russian fighter jet they scrambled to intercept.
Yeah, they do need a stealth jet. Stealth is what lets you fire your missiles before the enemy even knows you’re there.
The dirt cheap drones, those of them that diverted by error or malfunction from their intended targets, that is, inside margin of error.
Using F-35s to shoot down that in an actual war with waves of those drones seems inefficient. Paying more than the attack costs. Raising a jet costs fuel and maintenance. It’s purely a very expensive peacetime solution near a conflict. Those drones should have been intercepted by ground AD batteries. Which in case of being a war participant and not a neighbor you will need.
As a strategic weapon yes.
OK, as part of common European defense yes, it’s just that it’s still not unified enough it seems. Perhaps a common European military with mandatory training and reserve enlistment for citizens, standardized equipment and procedures (OK, that already exists), united command and proscription and budget, would be better. Because when it’s decided by separate governments, you end up with F-35s shooting down random drones being used as a proof that the system works.
That would mean, of course, turning the EU into a confederation from a union.
Firstly, it’s not just about the price of the drones being shot down - it’s also about the price of whatever they were going to hit if you didn’t stop them.
And secondly, that’s entirely beside the point anyway. The Dutch need stealth fighters just as much as anyone else would.
You call F35 the best ? The thing cannot fly well on a rainy day & it has shit landing-gear.
Get Sukhois, Eurofighter, Migs or Gripen (Rafales are good too)
Manueverability matters less when you can fire a missile that will hit your opponent before they even know you are in the airspace.
Like I’m not trying to say the F35 is perfect, its far from it…
… But dogfights almost never happen anymore.
Air to air combat is basically # of missiles, range of missiles, threat detection/target acquisition vs stealth cpabilities.
And as we are seeing in Ukraine with drones, its very likely to become … nearly Battle Star Galactica (Newer Reboot) style realtime cyberwarfare battles.
Like, if we ever get to the point of ‘Space Battles’, they’re gonna be as much remote hacking contests as they involve any kind of physical weaponry.
For a modern military, in a general sense, yes, the F35 is the best currently. Mostly due to it’s software and sensor suite which have a much larger impact on mission performance. It’s built to an assumption of US support, which means good runways and resilient supply lines. Russian fighters are out for the same reason US fighters should be out right now (can’t trust the government).
Canada is looking for new fighters, where I think the Gripen is actually better than the F35 for our specific use case (almost entirely defensive, rough runways in arctic conditions that the F35 struggles with, need for lower maintenance requirements due to manpower and budget issues). The Swedes deal with the same conditions we need a fighter for, plus they offered a full tech transfer to revitalize our aerospace industry and help achieve autonomy for operation of the Gripen.
I can forget about stealth capabilities for a sec, but Migs, really? Enjoy your 6 mig29++++ ever built and wooden mockups of fifth gen planes.
edit: also why would they want rafales if they don’t have carriers and they’d never carry nukes?