I think you’re letting perfect be the enemy of good here. You’re acting like the options are (a) cause as much suffering as you like, or (b) literally not eat anything at all. But of course there is ample middle ground between these two poles.
Note that in my other messages I said the point of veganism is to not cause any unnecessary suffering. Eating a burger is unnecessary. Eating in general, however, is necessary. That said, there are ways of eating that which cause drastically less suffering (ie by being vegan). So if your goal is to minimize suffering, that’s the way to go.
You’re acting like the options are (a) cause as much suffering as you likeno.
Letting animals be tortured and slaughtered en masse just to satisfy your trivial gustatory preferences is acting as if you can just cause as much suffering as you like.
eating a burger doesn’t cause any harm, anyway.
Are you unfamiliar with the industry standards in factory farms and slaughterhouses? If you are then theres no way you can honestly believe that eating a burger does not cause harm. Does it not harm the cow to slit her throat and let her bleed out?
A) raise cattle which, as there are not enough grassy pastures, I will have to grow food to feed, causing harm to lots of smaller animals and insects
B) eat the food I was already growing, and I will have to cause about 1/4th the harm
C) grow my own food and use fencing and netting to prevent as much harm as I can
D) starve to death
If you can’t do C because you don’t have the space or time, then I wouldn’t blame someone for picking “reduce harm as much as I can without starving to death.” Paying money to people who are engaging in factory farming is not on that same level.
So the factory farms abuse animals, but since the grocery store is paying them with money I gave the grocery store, it’s okay now. How could I know that paying for the product of the factory farm would make them buy more from that factory farm?
True that is a huge leap to say that if people purchase something consistently the grocery store will restock it. They will probably just leave those shelves empty once their current stock is gone.
Please explain to me how you think economics works then. If everyone were to stop buying meat then would these people be slaughtering the cows for free?
Not everyone literally needs to stop buying meat for there to be an effect. I was trying to illustrate how supply and demand works. The people eat meat and other animal products, the more animals will be killed to meet that demand. Do you disagree that by buying a burger you are contributing to that demand? Don’t try to evade the question, give me a yes or no answer.
I think you’re letting perfect be the enemy of good here. You’re acting like the options are (a) cause as much suffering as you like, or (b) literally not eat anything at all. But of course there is ample middle ground between these two poles.
Note that in my other messages I said the point of veganism is to not cause any unnecessary suffering. Eating a burger is unnecessary. Eating in general, however, is necessary. That said, there are ways of eating that which cause drastically less suffering (ie by being vegan). So if your goal is to minimize suffering, that’s the way to go.
>You’re acting like the options are (a) cause as much suffering as you like
no. I’m saying that everyone makes decisions about which animals get treated which ways. eating a burger doesn’t cause any harm, anyway.
Letting animals be tortured and slaughtered en masse just to satisfy your trivial gustatory preferences is acting as if you can just cause as much suffering as you like.
Are you unfamiliar with the industry standards in factory farms and slaughterhouses? If you are then theres no way you can honestly believe that eating a burger does not cause harm. Does it not harm the cow to slit her throat and let her bleed out?
>Letting animals be tortured and slaughtered en masse
eating beans doesn’t stop this. vegans are letting them be slaughtered as well.
My options are
A) raise cattle which, as there are not enough grassy pastures, I will have to grow food to feed, causing harm to lots of smaller animals and insects
B) eat the food I was already growing, and I will have to cause about 1/4th the harm
C) grow my own food and use fencing and netting to prevent as much harm as I can
D) starve to death
If you can’t do C because you don’t have the space or time, then I wouldn’t blame someone for picking “reduce harm as much as I can without starving to death.” Paying money to people who are engaging in factory farming is not on that same level.
I get my food from a grocery store, and I bet you do too.
So the factory farms abuse animals, but since the grocery store is paying them with money I gave the grocery store, it’s okay now. How could I know that paying for the product of the factory farm would make them buy more from that factory farm?
you can’t know that. in fact, you can’t know how they’ll spend your money you give them for beans and rice
True that is a huge leap to say that if people purchase something consistently the grocery store will restock it. They will probably just leave those shelves empty once their current stock is gone.
the animal is already dead. all the harm took place long before I decided what to eat.
You do realize that they only kill the animal because people like you pay to eat their flesh, right?
that’s not causal.
Please explain to me how you think economics works then. If everyone were to stop buying meat then would these people be slaughtering the cows for free?
unless you have a plan to get everyone to stop buying meat, this is moot.
meat was produced before anyone bought meat. there is no reason to believe it would stop.
Not everyone literally needs to stop buying meat for there to be an effect. I was trying to illustrate how supply and demand works. The people eat meat and other animal products, the more animals will be killed to meet that demand. Do you disagree that by buying a burger you are contributing to that demand? Don’t try to evade the question, give me a yes or no answer.
And there you go:
“Holier-than-thou vegans with pamphlet level arguments they force upon everybody are a problem.”
People don’t share your dietary choices. Deal with it.
Is what I said incorrect? Do you disagree that animals are being tortured en masse to satisfy our trivial gustatory preferences?
Now you got it, Sherlock.
Okay then I’d live to hear you explain how you think modern agriculture works
No.
Alright, well if you want to continue living in a fantasy world then I guess that’s your choice. Have a nice life