Cowbee I like the chart, but respectfully a lot of the rhetoric on ML instances reads closer to trolling than engaging to build a “sympathetic base” , just my 2 cents not worth much more than that ;-)
Every time I see Cowbee in a thread like this, it’s like I walked into a restaurant to see someone trying to explain to somebody else why their friend who just spat in their food is actually a cool dude doing great solidarity because the owners of the restaurant treat their employees poorly.
ML in my experience has very little to do with engaging with leftists and more to do with bashing the “decadent West.” Anytime I see memes.ml pop up in my feed, it’s a 50/50 shot between me finding something funny or something that makes me debate blocking the instance as much as I can at an account level.
Your entire argument is based on the idea that shitposting online is the primary means by which leftists organize. I organize with a communist party in real life, online memes and shitposting are by no means what people advocate as “practice,” it’s just a thing to do in free time. Take a step back and rethink what you believe is going on.
What on Earth are you talking about? All real communist orgs use online agitation, newsletters, social media, and more. I’m not saying that shitposting is valuable, I’m saying it’s not what I mean by practice. You’re deeply confused.
It’s idiotic to suggest you stop debating. Theory isn’t optional. It’s the framework that separates effective action from performative gesture. You want to bypass clarification for the sake of “unity,” but that’s precisely how movements get absorbed, diverted, or broken. Action without theory isn’t courage it’s idiocy. And your theory contradicts itself: you call for a broad front while dismissing the most successful actually-existing socialist project that has lifted the most people from poverty, challenged imperialist containment most effectively, and created the most material space for the Global South. It’s incoherent nonsense. Also side note, but every single even semi successful revolution has been some flavour of Marxist Leninist, this clearly isn’t a fluke or luck.
You’re correct that shitposting alone achieves little. But a coalition that includes those who uphold the imperialist state achieves less. The Chinese revolution for example didn’t succeed by treating all anti-Japanese forces as equals. It succeeded by applying a materialist analysis to the principal contradiction at each stage, coordinating tactically when interests aligned, and never surrendering political independence. Unity isn’t an abstract good, it’s a conditional tool. Its value depends on clarity about objectives, adversaries, and the balance of forces.
So debate continues. Not for its own sake, but because sharpening theory is how you avoid repeating errors, co-optation, and strategic dead ends. You should organize with those who share a material commitment to dismantling imperialism, not just those who oppose fascism in the abstract. That isn’t sectarianism, it’s the precision necessary to build something successful.
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Leftists have regularly been advocating for organizing:
The problem with liberals is that they still think the democrats are a path to progress, rather than slow death.
Cowbee I like the chart, but respectfully a lot of the rhetoric on ML instances reads closer to trolling than engaging to build a “sympathetic base” , just my 2 cents not worth much more than that ;-)
Every time I see Cowbee in a thread like this, it’s like I walked into a restaurant to see someone trying to explain to somebody else why their friend who just spat in their food is actually a cool dude doing great solidarity because the owners of the restaurant treat their employees poorly.
ML in my experience has very little to do with engaging with leftists and more to do with bashing the “decadent West.” Anytime I see memes.ml pop up in my feed, it’s a 50/50 shot between me finding something funny or something that makes me debate blocking the instance as much as I can at an account level.
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Your entire argument is based on the idea that shitposting online is the primary means by which leftists organize. I organize with a communist party in real life, online memes and shitposting are by no means what people advocate as “practice,” it’s just a thing to do in free time. Take a step back and rethink what you believe is going on.
Removed by mod
What on Earth are you talking about? All real communist orgs use online agitation, newsletters, social media, and more. I’m not saying that shitposting is valuable, I’m saying it’s not what I mean by practice. You’re deeply confused.
Removed by mod
It’s idiotic to suggest you stop debating. Theory isn’t optional. It’s the framework that separates effective action from performative gesture. You want to bypass clarification for the sake of “unity,” but that’s precisely how movements get absorbed, diverted, or broken. Action without theory isn’t courage it’s idiocy. And your theory contradicts itself: you call for a broad front while dismissing the most successful actually-existing socialist project that has lifted the most people from poverty, challenged imperialist containment most effectively, and created the most material space for the Global South. It’s incoherent nonsense. Also side note, but every single even semi successful revolution has been some flavour of Marxist Leninist, this clearly isn’t a fluke or luck.
You’re correct that shitposting alone achieves little. But a coalition that includes those who uphold the imperialist state achieves less. The Chinese revolution for example didn’t succeed by treating all anti-Japanese forces as equals. It succeeded by applying a materialist analysis to the principal contradiction at each stage, coordinating tactically when interests aligned, and never surrendering political independence. Unity isn’t an abstract good, it’s a conditional tool. Its value depends on clarity about objectives, adversaries, and the balance of forces.
So debate continues. Not for its own sake, but because sharpening theory is how you avoid repeating errors, co-optation, and strategic dead ends. You should organize with those who share a material commitment to dismantling imperialism, not just those who oppose fascism in the abstract. That isn’t sectarianism, it’s the precision necessary to build something successful.
I can’t see what you are replying to, but thanks for putting this down properly.